Great new format. In the past I never used to read the "Comments threads" because it was just too long and not well focused. This one concentrating on logical fallacies is much more readable. Besides, I'm a fan of logical fallacies.
Comments You Will Not Hear at the WT Study (11/5 PURPOSE IN LIFE)
by WT Comments 21 Replies latest watchtower bible
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choosing life
They sure depend on the ones that make this life run today, whether they think it is real or not. I always hated how they abdicated their responsibility to try and improve the current state of affairs. What would we do if everyone lived like that?
It's kinda how they use the blood banks, if the GB decides it's ok, but won't donate a drop of blood themselves. Pushing their form of delusion is not a true public service. I'm beginning to see them more and more as delusional and unable to live in the real world.
What are all the ones going to do that have no real retiremant? Depend on public services and charities? And hey, I thought I was never gonna die. Who's gonna help me prepare for and accept death?
The watchtower damage just keeps repeating itself, a cycle of broken promises. I see it in my grown kids eyes, so sure they have all the answers and their generation will be the chosen one to beat death itself. Nothing seems to get through, only an occassional glimmer of doubt that is quickly stored away where it never enters the consciousness of this "unreal world".
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Gopher
V,
Thanks for another fine breakdown of the week's propaganda session. You are really hitting your stride!
Having grown up JW and staying in it so long, I already knew the outline of the article before reading it:
1) Life in this world is purposeless
2) Even for those who think they have purpose, they're doing no good anyway
3) Bible characters who had purpose
4) We can give you purpose
5) Just give up any aspirations about making a decent life for yourself, and you can be a good JW
A phrase I used to hear a lot as a JW is "there is no such thing as a NORMAL life in this old system". The implication was that "normal" could only come in their fantasy new world. So again, that was loaded language. Any time you heard the word "normal" as a Witness, you'd think "BAD BAD BAD!"
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Awakened07
The notion that this is not the 'real life' is what really separates the JWs from others.
When you have that thought ingrained in you, 'sacrificing' your current life by not taking a life saving blood transfusion is OK, because you'll be rewarded with "the real life".
Shunning people because they no longer agree with you is OK, because the 'discomfort' they feel by being shunned is nothing compared to losing out on "the real life", and by shunning, (they believe) the disfellowshipped will return and ultimately receive that "real life".
Opting out of taking up a higher education is no biggie, because "this is not the real life" anyway.
Not pursuing a career or even a hobby in the area you have a talent for is no biggie, because "this is not the real life".
Living in virtual - or actual - poverty because you spend all your time preaching is no biggie, because "this is not the real life".
Basically - the Watchtower can have you agree to and do anything for them, because you think you will be awarded 'the real life' for doing so.
And that's what it comes down to. They are doing all these things for the Watchtower, not for a God.
Is what we have now not the real life?
Do you have proof as reliable as 100% that that is the case? Because your proof would have to be 100%. Why?
Because it is 100% certain that this life is what we know we have. Any other existence cannot be proven. So when you postulate a hypothesis of a future "real life", separate from this one, and you ask people to basically give up their purpose - or even existence - in this, certain life, you better have proof that what you are offering up as an alternative is real.
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Mary
1) "I studied medicine because I wanted to use my life to help people. I also felt that the prestige and financial rewards of being a doctor would make me happy," recalls Seung Jin, who grew up in Korea.* ([Some names have been changed])* Some names have been changed.) "
(*So why change their names if these are real, live people? They haven’t committed any crime have they? They’re not in the Witness Relocation Program (no pun intended) are they? Why not publish their real names and city where they live so other people reading this magazine could talk to them first hand?)
As I came to realize how little a doctor can really do to help, I became disillusioned.
Funny, but I don’t think any Witness who’s ever been in a hospital, perhaps with a life-threatening condition ‘realize[s] how little a doctor can really do to help.’ Whether they want to admit it or not, doctors—trained professionals-----save hundreds of thousands of lives every day, including Jehovah’s Witnesses. I wonder if Ted Jackass Jaracz would have this view if he had a heart attack or stroke and had to be rushed to the hospital. Oh wait a minute, I forgot: Crooklyn has their own doctors! Although it makes your sort of wonder why, when these doctors ‘can do so little’.
The fact that we are endowed with intelligence, conscience, and the ability to reason implies that the Creator had a good purpose in putting us here.
Yes, but don’t try to use your intelligence, conscience or your ability to reason while questioning either doctrine, "new light", or even by reading the bible, lest you be branded as an "independent thinker" blinded by Satan and disfellowshipped from the congregation.
Part of God's purpose for us is that we take good care of ourselves and of our families. This includes caring for both physical and spiritual needs. Balance is needed in doing this, however, so that secular interests and concerns do not eclipse the more important spiritual ones. (Matthew 4:4; 6:33)
And of course, the WT’s definition of "spiritual needs" means attending 5 meetings a week, every week, dragging your kids out in field service at least once a week, doing personal study, having a family study, preparing for the WT study, the bookstudy and then Thursday night. And what happens if your child has homework due the next day? Well according to the KM, that’s too damn bad and you better not miss a meeting simply because of homework:
km2/04p.1par.4RegularMeetingAttendance—APriority******
Schoolwork can also pose a challenge. "I do some of my schoolwork before the meetings and the rest after I come home," said one youth. If all assigned homework cannot be completed on meeting nights, some parents have explained to teachers that attendance at Christian meetings is a priority for their family .
Does this sound like the Governing Body has a "balanced view" towards responsibility and caring for your children’s int
Does this sound like the Governing Body has a "balanced view" towards responsibility and caring for your children’s inte
llectual development? Hardly. Instead, it promotes a warped view where everything outside of meeting attendance is relegatedd to second place. This attitude can easily be carried over into virtually every other aspect of life: Your relationship with your husband/wife, family members, friends, and your employer all take a backseat to the commands of Big Brother .Regrettably, many people focus their life almost exclusively on the acquiring of material things. Yet, trying to satisfy all our needs solely with material things is unrealistic.
Actually, there are probably very, very few people who dedicate their entire lives to "material things". Most people are a bit more balanced than that and have the same desires and needs that all humans do: love, children, good friends, quiet time and a desire to improve themselves.
A recent survey of millionaires in Asia reveals that many of them "feel insecure and troubled, even as they enjoy the social status and the sense of accomplishment their wealth brings."-Ecclesiastes 5:11.
Source please? Even giving the WT writers the benefit of the doubt here, basically what they’re saying is that millionaires who worked hard for what they have feel "a sense of accomplishment" and "enjoy social status"----two things that can certainly contribute to a person’s happiness. Of course they "feel insecure and troubled"----there are no certainties in life, but I’ll bet dollars to donuts that they don’t feel the same insecurity and trouble that a person making minimum wage with no health insurance feels.
But is it possible to pursue materialistic goals and still serve God whole-souled? No, it is not. Jesus explained: "No one can slave for two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stick to the one and despise the other. You cannot slave for God and for Riches."
Perhaps the Writing Department should check their own words before writing this sort of crap:
w062/1p.5TrueProsperityinGod’sNewWorld******
FaithfulMenWhoWereWealthy
Abraham, a faithful servant of God, acquired great flocks and herds, much silver and gold, and a large household of servants numbering in the hundreds. (Genesis 12:5; 13:2, 6, 7) Righteous Job also had considerable wealth—in livestock, servants, gold, and silver. (Job 1:3; 42:11, 12) These men were rich even by today’s standards, but they were also rich toward God.
The apostle Paul calls Abraham "the father of all those having faith." Abraham was neither stingy nor overly attached to what he had. (Romans 4:11; Genesis 13:9; 18:1-8) Likewise, God himself described Job as "blameless and upright." (Job 1:8) He was always ready to help the poor and afflicted. (Job 29:12-16) Both Abraham and Job trusted in God rather than in their riches.—Genesis 14:22-24; Job 1:21, 22; Romans 4:9-12.
King Solomon is another example. As heir to God’s throne in Jerusalem, Solomon was blessed not only with divine wisdom but also with abundant riches and glory. (1 Kings 3:4-14) For most of his life, he was faithful.
Hmmmm.............sounds to me as though God would like us humans to enjoy a relative measure of success and wealth. Not only that, but the scripture they use is talking about someone who "slaves" for riches, as opposed to someone who is simply trying to earn enough to support him/her family and enjoy things like maybe a trip to Disney World, or extra-curricular activities that can contribute to their mental and emotional development. Jesus would certainly never condemn this, yet the WT makes it sound as though anyone who has more than a one bedroom apartment, a 15 year old car and more than 3 outfits, is "slaving for materialism" instead of Jehovah. This is especially nauseating, as the GB members all ride around in luxury cars, have free travel, free room and board, free meals, free medical care, free everything----and this all comes from the materialistic R&F who like to make a bit more than minimum wage. You don’t bite the hand that feeds you.(Ephesians 4:28) . . .Let the stealer steal no more, but rather let him do hard work, doing with his hands what is good work, that he may have something to distribute to someone in need. . .
What about those who selflessly labor for the well-being of others, striving to eradicate hunger, illness, and injustice? Their noble and self-sacrificing efforts often do much good. Yet, despite their best efforts, they will never change this system of things into a fair and good one. Why not? Because in reality "the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one"–Satan–and he does not want it to change
So does that mean that we shouldn’t even try to make a difference? When did the WTS ever try to eradicate hunger, illness or injustice? How many Soup Kitchens do they run? How many winter coats to they give out to poor children? Hell they don’t even do this for their own, let alone for any "worldly" person. To them, it is a total waste of time to try to improve anything in this world. We’re far better off ignoring the example set by Jesus and the early Christians, and concentrate on trying to increase the number of hours spent peddling their magazines and books. Hardly ‘following in Christ’s footsteps.’
I became one of Jehovah's Witnesses just as I was completing dental school," Keith relates. "I had a choice. I could take on many patients and make a lot of money, but doing so would cut into our spiritual life. I chose to limit my practice so as to have more time for the spiritual and emotional well-being of our family, which came to include five daughters. Though we rarely had extra funds, we learned to economize, and we always had what we needed. Family life was close, warm, and full of joy
And how would this brother have been viewed had he gone to dental school as a Witness? He would have been ‘marked’ for being ‘puffed up with knowledge’, or ‘materialistic’ or something equally derogatory. Not only that, but he must have been a shit dentist if he "rarely had extra funds". My dentist works probably 40 - 50 hours a week and grosses about $1,000,000/year. After he pays salaries, rent, the cost of materials and equipment, he’s left with about $500,000. Common sense dictates that if a good dentist worked half the amount of time–20 hours a week, they’d still be clearing about $250,000 a year----which is a good wage even for someone with 5 kids. So either this guy was lousy and had few patients, or he didn’t work enough hours to get his family anything beyond the standard roof over their heads, food and clothing.
Seung Jin, mentioned at the outset, came to understand this too. "Instead of devoting all my energies to medicine, art, or secular teaching, I resolved to use my life in line with my dedication to God," he explains. "I am now serving where there is a great need for Bible teachers, helping people to get on the path to everlasting life. I used to think that being a full-time minister would not be challenging enough. Now my life is more challenging than ever, as I try to improve my personality and my ability to work with people of different cultures. I see that making Jehovah's purpose our purpose is the only meaningful way of life."
Knock yourself out buddy.....Like the pioneers of ‘73, ‘74 and ‘75 I wonder if he’ll be singing the same tune in 20 years when he Armageddon is still nowhere in sight, and he’s got health problems and no money.
All in all, this article is a perfect example of why so many are leaving the Organization. Anyone who wants to try and make something of themselves, or even use their brain, is viewed as being "materialisic" and hence, slaving for Satan. We’re to be content with the bare necessities of life, but if you’ve got anything left over when you die, make sure you leave it to the Borg, so that their leaders never have to work a day in their lives.
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Mincan
Excellent review. I love finding the logical fallacies in people's thoughts.
I never thought about one point that I just loved you pointing out!
JWs say that God is allowing humans to do WHATEVER THEY WANT right now TO PROVE THEY CAN RULE THEMSELVES. Yet as soon as humans started organising and accomplishing great feats such as Nimrod's Tower, Jehovah INTERFERES and RUINS THEIR PLANS!
So the whole JW argument that Jehovah is allowing us time to see if we can rule ourselves is crap. The bible clearly shows he is the direct cause of all the wars and racial conflicts ever fought after babel, since men changed languages and spread all over the earth instead of living all together in one great state accomplishing "anything they put their minds to" is directly Jehovah's fault!
They say he isn't the cause of human suffering, but simply allows it, well no, I think he is the cause of it.
Haha, this is great! Use it!
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marmot
Bravo! Awesome dissection! I cracked up at this part:
"Daniel, not for his work as a Babylonian government official..."
Unlike JWs who have no part in politics, Daniel was the literally the Minister of the Magic! Reconcile that!! Even Dumbledore had to turn that one down. -
SirNose586
This study pisses me off, as I'm sure it does to everyone else. Logical fallacies abound. You really nailed 'em, V! Also excellent comments from everyone. Kudos to Mary for breaking their lies down further.
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blondie
Here is how the WTS tries to weasel out of Daniel's position. Remember too Nehemiah and Mordecai and Esther.
*** w96 5/1 pp. 11-12 par. 7 God and Caesar ***After the fall of the Neo-Babylonian dynasty, Daniel was given a high-ranking governmental post under the new Medo-Persian regime that replaced it in Babylon. (Daniel 5:30, 31; 6:1-3) But he did not allow his high position to lead him into compromising his integrity. When a State law required that he worship King Darius rather than Jehovah, he refused. For this he was thrown to the lions, but Jehovah delivered him. (Daniel 6:4-24) Of course, this was in pre-Christian times. Once the Christian congregation was established, God’s servants came "under law toward Christ." Many things that were permitted under the Jewish system were to be viewed differently, based on the way in which Jehovah was now dealing with his people.—1 Corinthians 9:21; Matthew 5:31, 32; 19:3-9.
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OnTheWayOut
I was immediately appalled by paragraph 1.
There are plenty of doctors and artists and teachers that feel they make a difference.
Many others were not listed here:
While I am not a fan of most politicians, many of them make positive contributions.
Social workers, counselors, therapists, child advocacy proponents, craftsmen, even
librarians and boys club volunteers, nurses, home-health care workers.Logical Fallacy: Non Sequitur
Latin for "It does not follow." An inference or conclusion that does not follow from established premises or evidence.The two statements above, while they may have some merit, do not relate to each other. There is nothus. For example, plants and animals are also "wonderfully made" (I'm ignoring the assumption we are 'made'). Does that mean that the flora and fauna are also obliged to love unselfishly??
Your explanation of NON Sequitur was great.
Para. 4: ... we can bring joy and praise to our heavenly Father. (Genesis 6:9; Proverbs 23: 15, 16; James 2:23) That is the highest purpose anyone can pursue.
So we have a god similar to the god of primitives. Everything is about making the god happy.
The highest purpose has nothing to do with ourselves and a sense of accomplishment.
If we were made in the image of such a self-serving god, why would it be wrong to imitate him and
put our own material interests first? Yet Para. 5 says it is wrong.Also from Para. 5: A recent survey of millionaires in Asia reveals that many of them "feel insecure and troubled, even as they enjoy the social status and the sense of accomplishment their wealth brings."
Para. 1 told of someone who felt that he made little difference as a doctor, artist, or teacher.
He could not pass on any happiness. Even they overlooked their own statements here, because
the 33 Chinese millionaires seemed to have "the sense of accomplishment their wealth brings."
Just because Seung Jin from Korea isn't happy, their own data shows there is some purpose in
wealth. There's a logical inconsistency.You point out at Para. 6 that "...the pursuit of God is the pursuit of riches."
I have to agree. WTS teaches it's members to forego riches now and pursue mansions in Paradise.
The entire mindset of a JW is to get the rewards- the hidden treasure.Q9) What can humans never accomplish, and why not?
So don't even try to find any happiness or sense of accomplishment in anything except WT-selling.
12) The present world "is passing away and so is its desire," says the Bible. No part of Satan's world, including its fame and fortune, will be exempt, "but he that does the will of God remains forever." (1 John 2:15-17)
In para. 12, there is that god of the primitives again. Sacrifice to that god, please him first. OR BE DESTROYED.
I love the logic arguments in this WT COMMENTS. Bravo!!!