In all fairness Rosalee, you often talk about the actions of individual witnesses not being reflective of the organization. Above is a quote from the elder's manual saying that under normal circumstances someone would not be disfellowshiped for associating with a disfellowshiped individual.
Some people may decide to associate and others may not. Some elders will be more strict than others, but you are categorically stating that someone WOULD be DF'd for association. Can you provide any proof of this claim that refutes the quote from the "Flock" book? Other than the hearsay from a friend of yours.
If I am disfellowshipped, will my family get disfellowshipped they...
by LayingLow 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Paralipomenon
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La Capra
I DA'ed over 20 years ago. Not once has my mom-a die hard dub- shunned me. Some of it may have to do with the fact that my dad is not a JW. We enjoy meals together (in restaurants and at our homes), take trips, she came to my Jewish wedding and didn't bolt during the prayers (it was all prayers), and we even go shopping in her local small town together (where I actively engage all dubs and ex-dubs we run into in conversations including my mom). I suspect she rationalizes it in two ways. First, that her husband requires that her to maintain her familial relationship with me, and two (this is the biggy that overrides any threats elders and others might make) The interactions were necessary to conduct important family business. I do not think the Watchtower has gone out and defined exactly what family business is, but any definition of it would have to be broad enough to include (even by a stretch) just about any type of familial activity you can think of....Shoshana
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Mary
LL said: Then this goose is cooked... Actually I've already sat through hours and hours of elders meetings in deep discussion over the specifics of the doctrine. No word for a long time, maybe they're just getting the JC engine revved up, I'm not sure.
Not necessarily. I talked with two elders who were personal friends of mine about two of the doctrines: the 144,000 and the erroneous teaching that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BCE. Straight up, I told them that I had no desire to make them doubt their faith, but that I could not possibly believe something that has been proven to be false. When they asked me why I did not believe the doctrine about 607 BCE, I told them what I knew and I could almost literally see the wheels of 'independent thinking' start churning in their heads. They had nothing to refute except that if it was erroneous, Jehovah would straighten it out "in His time." So I just left it at that. As I've said, you're under no obligation to meet with the elders and they can't force you. If they tell you that they're going to DF you for 'apostasy' in absentia if you don't show up (which the cowardly bastards do quite often), I'd tell them straight out that if the DF you, you'll make sure that everyone in the congregation gets a copy of written proof that the WTS has stock in a cigarette company (Phillip Morris) that they hypocritically had a United Nations Library card that they whored themselves for, and that they recently settled 9 sexual abuse cases complete with gag order, rather than let it go to court. All these things are documented and can be proven and would definitely shake the faith of alot in your congregation. (Isn't the internet a wonderful thing? ) However, if they just let you go and don't DF you, tell them that you won't say a word to anyone. Since keeping the rank and file in subjection is their main goal, most elders will go for Option B. If they're dumb enough to go for Option A, just do a post on here and we'll be happy to show you the documentation as described above.
Either way, my family knows what my differences are and they are still willing to associate. Actually some agree, but have spent too long in the org, don't like the idea of thinking for themselves, and are willing to ride it out (they've actually verbalized this). I was just wondering if any one has some hands on experience with the likely upcoming situation. How did you manage to continue associating with family? Any note-worthy results or advice?
One of the posters on here, (Gumby) was out for a number of years but did a fake reinstatement earlie this year because it's the only way he could have contact with his family. You're lucky in the fact that your immediate family isn't in the religion-----that makes a huge difference. If your extended family are still willing to associate with you, then that's great. My parents feel screwed over by the religion to a certain degree (promised they would never grow old, never die, never retire.....they're both 75 now). However, they were both raised in the religion and I don't expect them to change now so I just let them be for the most part. Funny thing is, if they did indeed shun me, I'd make sure they knew everything that I knew. The very fact that they're not obeying the religions' direction, is what keeps me from spilling the beans to them.
LL asks ... Do you think they mean to justify their wrong course in associating with you?
No, not at all. It's talking about "as long as they don't try to justify your behaviour that got you DF'd". In a nutshell, as long as your family doesn't brag to others at the KH that they were associating with you and how you really didn't deserve to be DF'd, etc., then they should be okay.
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jgnat
REGARDLESS of what the rule book says, people will do what people do. Some will toe the line, some will associate privately, and a scant few will associate boldly.
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sweetstuff
Having been disfellowshipped, I thought I might point something out, even if your family chooses to have some association with you, privately, under the cover of night per say, rest assured that association will consist of making you feel like crap to some degree, pressure for you to come back to the org and emotional blackmail ensues. The moment you are disfellowshipped in 99% of cases, the association you once had, the quality of it, is gone.
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LayingLow
I've already noticed. Everytime I come to visit it starts with them pumping up the Society. Then looking to me to support their position. Then them becoming disgruntled, then the accusations fly. Then I reply with the latest damning evidence I had come across. They then admit that what I say makes sense and has, but that they will continue doing what they do. The topic then switches to something else, and we have a good time. It seems now I have to get through the unpleasantries rather than the pleasantries to get the conversation going. From that point on it goes well, but I know what you're saying. Wait one week, return, repeat....