Did you have "a personal relationship to Jehovah"?

by Awakened07 23 Replies latest jw friends

  • ush419
    ush419

    I had always thought that having a personal relationship with Jehovah was an odd thing, how do you have a relationship or make a friend of someone when they don't talk to you, don't answer you, and everything you do has to be in accord with their rules?????? Just seemed to me to be veryyyyyyy strange!!! I never felt Jehovah come into my heart, and when reading about him in the old testament i was unable to find area where the New Testament said that God is Love, unless its love of destruction, being hard headed, love of destruction, I mean whey kill all the animals because mankind was filled with violence.

    And when they said that he answers us when we read the bible, well that is no better an answer than saying that plato or anyone else answers us when we read any of their works, its just nonsense, I always felt that I was missing something. Unless we make Jehovah our friend based upon how we act in accordance with his requirements and how we treat others, but that hardly describes the realm of friendship that I have had with people in my past and present.

  • VoidEater
    VoidEater

    While in the religion, I felt a satisfactory completion of requirements that made me feel like a Good Boy. Thanks, Gopher, for pointing out how so many "measure" your relationship with God in the faith - can you answer questions at Watchtower study, book study, can you give a talk, can you push the magazines...but this didn't feel like a relationship with God to me. This felt like obeying my father and getting good marks.

    Flash forward 25+ years, I've been out personally though still enmeshed because of my relatives and my Dad's masochistic machinations to get back in after being told he disassociated himself (no path back, incidentally for that status - you gotta make it up as you go along) - but I had some remarkable experiences. I don't claim they were what they seemed - I only claim how they felt to me. And if they are just my psyche making stuff up, I'm ok with that, too.

    I developed an experience, a physical sensation, of having a connection to something (let's call it God) that loved me unconditionally, and when I keep my awareness on that connection I am influenced to treat others well and with compassion and kindness.

    I remember what it was like to be told how important it was to have a personal relationship with Jehovah, and nothing more was ever said about it. How was it achieved? What did it look like? How did it feel? No one I asked could tell me anything other than it was important. I remember thinking, well, if it's so important, shouldn't someone be able to tell me the steps to getting there?

    Knowing what this connection to God does for me, I would have to say that those that have transgressed against me could not possibly have had this experience, this relationship. How can you be raping a child while experiencing something telling you to be kind? It was clear my rapist (an elder) was not in a compassionate state.

    It was also clear that the thought control police riding my father had no experience of kindness or compassion. They appeared to be having a highly ego-driven time demanding subservience from a pentitent than expressing loving kindness to a distraught individual.

    So, yes, if those transgressors had exhibited what I see as the fruits of a personal relationship with God (rather than just being clever enough to quote policy, or smart enough to avoid witnesses), then things would probably be different today - and maybe the JWs would actually be an organization of holy, enlightened people.

    If things were different, they wouldn't be the same. But that doesn't appear to be the case.

    As far as being more active or a pioneer due to a relationship with Jehovah - well, in my somewhat limited experience (in 7 congregations in 3 states), none of those in the full time service that I knew or know did it due to a spiritual awakening or relationship with God. It was done because of a sense of anxiety to please the organization, because it was expected, because they were driven to Save people. In short, looking for the Good Boy kudos from their replacement parents, the elders.

    Now that I do not believe the WTBS has the Truth, I would not say that I do not believe in Jehovah. I do believe in this Divine presence I feel inside, which seems to "feed" me emotionally and somehow give my body comfort. I don't know that I use this Anglo-ized version for the "name of God" very much (despite the way the JWs pin their identity on this word, it certainly isn't anything more than one possible way to express the identity of God, unless you accept it as Revelation), but I've never held much store by the labels we apply to things, except where it is important for communication. Back then, I didn't have a relationship beyond obedience, and could truthfully claim obedience, and did. Today, the relationship I have with God is based on an internal experience, and how that experience seems to inform my thoughts and actions.

    To those that do not think of relationships being based upon experience, I would encourage them to be more inclusive in how they think about their relationships - with spouses, friends, children, etc. A very important piece of relationship is the experience you have when aware of these people in your lives; and how you can still have a relationship with someone who is not physically near you; and, indeed, I suspect that you can call up an experience of many relationships you have had with those that have passed away, those that have moved out of your life, those that you haven't been in touch with. I would assert that the experience of a relationship is the primary aspect of a relationship.

    How can I trust this current experience of God? Well, since anything believed is merely an imaginary mental construct anyway (a label), we are free to choose our beliefs at any time as we see fit. The concept of "real" is actually quite slippery (solipsry?). So my thoughts on a subject are just as strong and just as weak as my experiences and feelings. They are all "real enough" for me to relate to at the present time - what else should there be?

    If I liked scrambled eggs yesterday, and I don't like them today, does it mean I never liked them after all? Or does it just mean something changed?

    I trust this experience of God because I choose to. I don't claim it is objectively true in this conversation; I claim it is useful to me, and that I gain benefit from it; indeed, I enjoy it and hold it as important.

    Tomorrow is another day, and things may be different; and, as always, your mileage may vary.

  • Awakened07
    Awakened07

    Thanks for the replies; very nice reply VoidEater. I have no desire to belittle or take away your current belief. Initially, by the way, when I wrote the first post, I wrote (for those who don't believe in him anymore) after the sentence about not believing in Jehovah, but I deleted it because I gathered that most people here no longer would say they believe in Jehovah. But JWs of course don't hold exclusivity of that name like they think they do.

    I remember a short while after I first got private access to the internet, and one day by accident found a web page that I thought must have been made by JWs, because this guy went on about Jehovah. And to my horror, it turned out he wasn't a JW! To me this was unheard of, because to me at the time, "Jehovah" was an exclusive of his people, the JWs, and as such no one else could use it with impunity. That may have been one of the first seeds of doubt in me.

    Actually, I was a very "superstitious" JW:

    I remember a non-Witness I knew (I won't mention the circumstances as to not possibly "out" my real identity), who made a "hangman doll" out of toilet rolls and cardboard once, and on that doll he had written Jehovah in big black letters. I was horrified, and remember thinking something to the effect of "He won't live long!". I knew Jehovah wouldn't generally kill people until Armageddon, but this - this was just too much to go unpunished. Today - that guy is a well known figure in high society in my country, with a beautiful wife even though he doesn't really have good looks himself; you could actually say he was more blessed than cursed...

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    He was nothing more than an abusive stepfather to me.

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