Dr. Spok

by reneeisorym 20 Replies latest social family

• 

  prophecor

  Are you saying hitting a child is good idea?

  It's not so much a matter of being a good idea. Its a matter of common sense. Children, if not reeled in with the rod of reality from time to time, can turn into monsters without corrective medicine. No rational or civilised person, ever looks forward to spanking thier children. Times do present themselves, however, when it becomes necessary to administer discipline in the form of an occasional course correction with children. Correction depends on the child as well. It's not a beach blanket issue with all of them. The rod of correction needs to be used more than others for differing situations. No one case is the same. Correction comes at different levels. At a certain point, physical correction shouldn't even come into the picture. You can reel them in only upto a certain point. After a child has reached a level and age of understanding, physical punishment becomes no longer of any benefit.

  Using corrective measures may come in the form of restrictions from certain activities. Assignment of extra chores or whatever you may deem necessary to get that childs attention. They are going to grow beyond your ability to control, in your own environment, if left to the:"Now Bobby, you know what you did was wrong", speech all the time.

  Words do not always, readily get that childs attention. I'm not here to be your friend, pal, buddy or whoever some of the kids of the day seem to take to thier parents for. We've lost sight of where our priorities lie when it comes to raising our kids. To not look for them with discipline, as described in scripture, is to pre-program them for a life without walls, without rules, without boundaries, without boders. The skies the limit. They will be well on thier way to possibly living thier days, selling drugs, selling sex, using drugs and preparing themselves for prison and or death.
• 

  Gopher

  To not look for them with discipline, as described in scripture

  So by scripture, do you mean the Judeo-Christian Bible? You're recommending a book that the majority of earth's inhabitants do not possess as the only possible means to raise a law-abiding child?
• 

  5go

  No rational or civilised person, ever looks forward to spanking thier children.

  You hit spank your child when he (she) is young. You tell him he did something wrong before and it was for there own good.

  Then the child tells some one else "you did something wrong to me and I am going to hit you for your own good" he (she) then proceeds to hit them. What do you then do? Well you reason with him (her) hitting is wrong, you then hit spank him (her) again.

  Sounds like a good way to bring about emotional and moral stabilty.
• 

  prophecor

  You're recommending a book that the majority of earth's inhabitants do not possess as the only possible means to raise a law-abiding child?

  As it is, I was born here in this westernised society, and the majority of the inhabitants here are from a Judeo-Christian origin, then yes I am refering to that book. I do not speak for the Hindu, Buddhist and the plethora of other religions on the planet. Being that I am an American citizen and have been witness to the destructive forces that come from many, refusing to pay heed to much of what the Bible says, (Myself Included) I speak from my experience.

  The scriptures are a moral compass that we can use to our benefit. I would imagine, however that even the beliefs of other religions give a guide and foundation for a better society, as well. I don't happen to live in Tibet, Iran or Malaysia. I do, however, recognise truth when its spoken. Even from those who are Hindu, or those who follow Confucianism, Islam, or any other host of religious and scriptural persuasions.
• 

  blueviceroy

  Dr.Spok and I see very similar views. My son is a wonderful human being concientious ,considerateand thoughtful. He was raised with LOVE nothing else.

  Discipline and punishment are two seperate things.

  I have always been smarter and older (ie;more experienced ) than my children

  Living the way you wish your child to act is how we teach , not doing and saying different things.

  Dr.Spok is mostly an affirmation of parenting instinct. A pretty good guy.
• 

  reneeisorym

  Using corrective measures may come in the form of restrictions from certain activities. Assignment of extra chores or whatever you may deem necessary to get that childs attention. They are going to grow beyond your ability to control, in your own environment, if left to the:"Now Bobby, you know what you did was wrong", speech all the time.

  Words do not always, readily get that childs attention. I'm not here to be your friend, pal, buddy or whoever some of the kids of the day seem to take to thier parents for. We've lost sight of where our priorities lie when it comes to raising our kids. To not look for them with discipline, as described in scripture, is to pre-program them for a life without walls, without rules, without boundaries, without boders.

  I don't think anyone here has suggested raising children without discipline. There has been a question of if it is a good idea to physically hit them as a form of discipline. Restrictions from activities or extra chores are necessary.

  In my experience, the discipline was plenty and harsh in my house but ineffective. My mom was not consistent in spanking me nor did she always explain what I did wrong. I remember thinking "so I do something wrong and I get hit a few times, so it's then over and I can go about my business." I straightened up VERY quickly at the suggestion of taking away my allowance or grounding me. (those instances were few) The harsh spankings did not prevent me from doing things that were wrong. I got into plenty of trouble. Also, my ex-husband hit me and I felt that I deserved it - sometimes I hit him back. It wasn't until I left the JWs that I started to question it all. I realized how wrong it was to hit another person and I have not done it since. I want to fix what my parents did wrong. Was it just the inconsistancy or the control or the method?

  I am questioning the use of the rod as discipline. I was brainwashed to believe that was the way to go. I think I want to give this a lot of thought before I decide for sure what they did wrong. I was an unhappy child who made a lot of mistakes but I did turn out into a very well adjusted adult. Somewhere they did something right too.

  What about this attachment parenting? The way I understand it, people co-sleep, respond to their every cry, and keep their infant nearby all of the time. Is this what Spok teaches or is this something new? Has anyone grown up into an adult and can testify to how this method worked out?
• 

  Gopher

  I cannot comment on attachment parenting. However I did want to comment on this:

  I was an unhappy child who made a lot of mistakes but I did turn out into a very well adjusted adult. Somewhere they did something right too.

  First of all, what child doesn't make a lot of mistakes? If children never made mistakes, they could never learn from them, or how to overcome them.

  Secondly, have you heard the saying "A lot of good kids come from the worst homes, and a lot of bad kids come from the best homes"? I've seen where well-adjusted kids and malcontents came out of the very same family.

  So you're one of the good kids who came from a house of turmoil. That would be because you (and other good kids like you) overcame your background, you turned out well because of personal qualities. That doesn't mean your parents did everything bad, but it also doesn't mean their mistakes need to be repeated in the next generation.
• 

  reneeisorym

  So you're one of the good kids who came from a house of turmoil. That would be because you (and other good kids like you) overcame your background, you turned out well because of personal qualities.

  Personal qualities I got from my father. There really is a lot I admire about him and hope I am a little like that. He just also happens to be a control freak and a cult member -- two things I didn't want for myself !

  Anyway ... at least my kids won't have cult members for parents! .. I've done something right already! haha
• 

  cognizant dissident

  I have read studies that the majority of North American's (over 80%) still believe in spanking their children. So how we can blame "not spanking" children as the cause of the moral decline of modern society? It does not make logical sense. Unless one could show that the majority of people arrested and processed through the criminal system belong to the 20% who weren't spanked as children. In fact, there are research studies that show just the opposite. Children who are spanked perform less well on learning tests than children who are not spanked. The majority of people in prision come from families where harsh and abusive parenting practices were the norm including severe spankings/beatings. They are often poor and poorly educated. In contrast, the 20% of North Americans who do not believe in spanking children, come from the better educated, upper middle and upper classes.

  The facts just do not support the supposition that spanking/beating children with the rod is necessary for their moral development and success in later life. However, not spanking is automatically equated with "permissiveness". In fact they are not related at all. There are many ways to teach and discipline a child that do not involve any corporal punishment. They often require more time, effort, and creativity on the part of the parents and a greater degree of parental involvement, discipline and follow through. The real moral decline in today's youth, (if there is even such a decline, it has not been demonstrated effectively with statistics) probably comes from being raised/neglected by parents who take the easy route of yelling and smacking/hitting instead of taking the time to use effective discipline methods with their children.

  Cog
• 

  franzy

  (spock, not spok)
  
  thank you, COG, for weighing in with a bit of elevated reasoning.
  
  we needed that in this discussion.