by why144000 17 Replies latest jw friends
G'day
I need a bit of help trying to explain to my wife that the God of the OT was not the same "God is Love" of the NT. She is coming around to the fact that the GB are not the FDS however I keep getting the line that God loves everyone and always has. I will be researching the OT to show her examples of where the God of the OT demanded killing and forced slavery etc. Could people please add their examples of the bi-polar view of the God of the NT vs the God of the OT.
Thanks in advance
I don't know how much "help" this will be to you or to your wife, but I'll take a stab at it.
I don't see a dichotomy. The God of both periods is the same. John 1, Phillipians 1, and Colossians 2, and others show this to be so.
Ecclesiastes 3 lets us know there is a time for everything. During the OT period it was a time for war; during the NT period, a time for peace. However, there is once again going to be a time for war as referenced in Revelation.
It took many hours of study and prayer for me to come to this conclusion. I hope this doesn't come across as too dogmatic; you may, after careful study, arrive at a different conclusion.
Peace and love on your journey.
Sylvia
I got this from Internet infidels, you can find a lot of good stuff on that site
NU 31:9 The Israelites capture Midianite women and children.
NU 31:17-18 Moses, following the Lord's command, orders the Israelites to kill all the Midianite male children and "... every woman who has known man ...." (Note: How would it be determined which women had known men? One can only speculate.)
NU 31:31-40 32,000 virgins are taken by the Israelites as booty. Thirty-two are set aside (to be sacrificed?) as a tribute for the Lord.
DT 2:33-34 The Israelites utterly destroy the men, women, and children of Sihon.
DT 3:6 The Israelites utterly destroy the men, women, and children of Og.
DT 7:2 The Lord commands the Israelites to "utterly destroy" and shown "no mercy" to those whom he gives them for defeat.
DT 20:13-14 "When the Lord delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the males .... As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves."
DT 20:16 "In the cities of the nations the Lord is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes."
DT 21:10-13 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites are allowed to take "beautiful women" from the enemy camp to be their captive wives. If, after sexual relations, the husband has "no delight" in his wife, he can simply let her go.
DT 28:53 "You will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you."
EX 21:7-11 A father can sell a daughter into slavery to pay a debt. A daughter sold into slavery is not released at the end of six years as is an ordinary male slave.JG 21:12 Young virgins are considered a spoil of war and can be taken for the use of the victors.
JG 21:21 The Benjamites are commanded to take wives by hiding in the vineyards and then seizing the "daughters of Shiloh" as they come out to dance.
You should find some good stuff here as well.
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html
CyrusThePersian
Snowbird, thank you for your contribution, I appreciate it. I understand that different times may need responses however I am troubled by the differences between the actions of the same god over time. For others (and snowbird) please continue your input. It may well make a large difference in helping my wife see the truth about "the truth"
it seems to me that the god of old and new are basically the same... you read in the old, though is sins were as crimson I will make them white as snow if he repents...and though is acts were righteous, if he turns from me he will be laid low... [paraphrasing]. and the god of the new saying things like -- those who did not want me as king, bring them before me and slaughter them -luke 19:27, etc.
I am troubled by the differences between the actions of the same god over time. For others (and snowbird) please continue your input.
Different times, different settings, same purpose. To redeem and reconcile His people and the world to Himself; those who fight against Him will have to suffer the consequences. The Bible doesn't sugarcoat or apologize for that.
Again, I see no difference in the Person. His actions are different because each stage of His purpose causes Him to assume a different Role.
Sylvia
The dreamer dreaming mentioned the same scripture that came to my mind:
Luke 19:27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me."
This is a parallel account. Kind of gives a different perspective, doesn't it?
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Matthew 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a man that was a householder, who planted a vineyard, and set a hedge about it, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into another country. 21:34 And when the season of the fruits drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, to receive his fruits. 21:35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. 21:36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them in like manner. 21:37 But afterward he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. 21:38 But the husbandmen, when they saw the son, said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and take his inheritance. 21:39 And they took him, and cast him forth out of the vineyard, and killed him. 21:40 When therefore the lord of the vineyard shall come, what will he do unto those husbandmen? 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those miserable men, and will let out the vineyard unto other husbandmen, who shall render him the fruits in their seasons. 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures,
The stone which the builders rejected,
The same was made the head of the corner;
This was from the Lord,
And it is marvelous in our eyes?
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Sylvia
I got this link from another poster: GOD DIAGNOSED WITH BIPOLAR DISORDER
NEW HAVEN, CT–In a diagnosis that helps explain the confusing and contradictory aspects of the cosmos that have baffled philosophers, theologians, and other students of the human condition for millennia, God, creator of the universe and longtime deity to billions of followers, was found Monday to suffer from bipolar disorder.
Rev. Dr. J. Henry Jurgens, a practicing psychiatrist and doctor of divinity at Yale University Divinity School, announced the historic diagnosis at a press conference.
"I always knew there had to be some explanation," Jurgens said. "And, after several years of patient research and long sessions with God Almighty through the intercessionary medium of prayer, I was able to pinpoint the specific nature of His problem."
Bipolar, or manic-depressive, disorder is a condition that afflicts millions. Characterized by cycles of elation followed by bouts of profound depression and despair, the disorder can wreak havoc on both the sufferer and his or her loved ones, particularly if it goes undetected and untreated for an extended period. Though the condition is estimated to affect, in one form or another, 5 percent of the world's population, Monday marks the first time it has been diagnosed in a major deity.
Evidence of God's manic-depression can be found throughout the Universe, from the white-hot explosiveness of quasars to the cold, lifeless vacuum of space. However, theologians note, humanity's exposure to God's affliction comes primarily through His confusing propensity to alternately reward and punish His creations with little rhyme or reason.
"Last week, I lost my dear husband Walter to the flood," said housewife and devout churchgoer Elaine Froman of Davenport, IA. "I asked myself, 'Why? Why would God do something like this, especially when He had just helped Walter overcome a long battle with colon cancer, and we were so happy that we finally had a chance to start our lives anew?'"
New York attorney Ruth Kanner also gained firsthand knowledge of God's wild mood swings.
"Last Saturday, on a gorgeous spring afternoon, I was jogging in Central Park with my daughter. We were marveling at the beauty and majesty of nature, and I remember thinking what a wonderful world we live in. Then, out of nowhere, I heard the gunfire," said Kanner, speaking from her hospital bed at Columbia Presbyterian Medical Center. "All they took was a measly $17, and for that, the doctors say my daughter will never walk again. If only Our Holy Father didn't have those mental problems, my precious Katie might not be confined to a wheelchair for the rest of her life."
Jurgens stressed that God's earthly subjects need to understand that, because of His bipolar condition, He is not in control of His actions and does not realize how they affect others.
"What He needs from us is understanding and patience," Jurgens said. "To paraphrase the words of the Lord God Himself, 'Humans, forgive Him, for He knows not what He does.'"
While such drugs as Paxil, Prozac, and Zoloft have proven effective in the treatment of bipolar disorder among humans, there is no modern earthly medicine that can be prescribed for a deity as vast and complex as God. Jurgens is in the process of forming a support group, "Living With A Bipolar Creator-Deity," for all of humanity to "get together and discuss their feelings about living in a universe run by an Omnipresent Loved One not fully in control of his emotions."
Jurgens said he believes God's essential condition is seasonal, as evidenced by the bursts of energy and elation associated with springtime and summer, followed by the decay and bleak despair of fall and winter. Sometimes, however, the condition cycles even faster.
"The average person with bipolar disorder may go through as many as 10 or 12 cycles of mania and subsequent depression in a lifetime. In severe cases, a sufferer may experience four or more per year, which is known as 'rapid cycling,'" Jurgens said. "We believe God suffers from the even rarer 'ultra-rapid cycling,' which would account for the many documented cases in which He alternates between benevolence and rage toward humanity within a matter of seconds. For example, last week, He brought desperately needed, life-giving rain to southern Mali while simultaneously leveling Turkey with a devastating earthquake."
Further evidence of God's manic-depression can be found in the Bible, in which the erotomania of the Song of Songs sharply contrasts with the sadness and existential despair of the Book of Ecclesiastes. The Book of Job, Jurgens noted, marks the best example of His condition. The book begins with the bleak lamentations of Job and ends with a full-blown manic episode by God, complete with such classic bipolar symptoms as the illusion of omnipotence and delusions of grandeur.
"One of the major 'heresies' of Christian history is the Gnostic belief that the Creator, or 'demiurge,' of this troubled world is a blind, idiot god who is insane," Jurgens said. "This idea surfaces in many religious traditions around the globe. As it turns out, they were only half right: God has His problems like anyone else, but He is essentially trying His best. He just has a condition that makes His emotions fly out of control at times."
"So it's up to us to make the best of God's emotional problems," Jurgens continued. "Thus, mankind is born to trouble, as surely as sparks fly upward."
