Heading to the apostafest this weekend, we have made a deal with our friends to look after our kids. Given that they already have 3 children, adding 3 more could be stressful so we thought we would ask my parents if they wanted to take one overnight.
bobbi mentioned that she hadn't really heard much from my mom and suspected something was up. So I call up last night on my drive home.
We make some idle chitchat and I ask if their assembly is this weekend which she confirms. I go on to explain why I wanted to know and tell them we'll reschedule a sleepover another weekend and that was a great idea.
Then she asks me what we decided about celebrating the holidays.
I asked if she really wanted to know, or if she would prefer we just not talk about it, she said she wanted to know.
I told her that we decided to participate in the holidays.
Her next line was "So we can still see the grandchildren, right?" I was a bit confused at first why she was asking this, I assumed she was just looking for clarification from our talk.
"Of course," I said, "why wouldn't you be?"
"Oh good, I just wasn't sure with how you had left it when we talked"
Then it set in, so I clarified
"So long as you and dad aren't shunning bobbi or I have absolutely no reason for the kids not to see you"
Then my mom's intention came up "You are making a stand against Jehovah, that's something we cannot support"
Since I am on my cell phone in traffic I said that I really couldn't get into a discussion right then, but my view of them shunning me hasn't changed.
She agreed and said that she would like to sit down and discuss the issue with the four of us. (mom, dad, bobbi and I) so that we could "lay all our cards on the table and discuss boundaries"
I agreed to set something up later on next week, we wished each other a happy weekend and that was it.
So it's on now. This is what I was waiting for. The last conversation felt like nothing changed. So long as I kept up the appearances they could keep talking to us. Attending meetings or going in service aren't priorities with my parents, but holidays are the deal breaker.
It's finally sunk in that I am not a witness. This is not just a phase or a slump, but I am no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses. THAT is what I have been waiting for.
They have been on and off shunning my sister for years, mom would stop talking for a while then exclaim "nobody is getting in between me and my daughter" and they pick back up again. That is precisely the attitude that I think messes kids up. Mom is so used to being in control of the situation, when shunning isn't convenient she flips, when she's feeling guilty, the shunning resumes.
Unfortunately she raised me with the value that "let your yes mean yes, and your no, no". She's about to lose her power. Shunning me is shunning my family, except when I say no, I mean it.
So they want to talk, no doubt to convince me how evil and deluded I am and convince me that shunning is only something that witnesses are allowed to do, how dare I hold them to it.
I am printing off documentation on every single one of the points that they refused to accept and putting it in a sealed envelope. After our "talk" I am leaving the envelope with them and tell them that their access to their grandchildren is in there. If they want to remain ignorant of their own beliefs, they can leave the envelope as closed as their minds.
On the front of it, I'm stapling a picture of the cover of the book "Millions now living will never die". All the people that got that book are dead. My parents aren't stupid, they just haven't had the motivation question their beliefs.
I tried the velvet gloves the last time we talked, now it's time for the wifflebat. This will be the last time I talk to my parents as witnesses, I am absolutely fine with that realization so I'm not holding back any punches. I am not happy with my parents decision, but this is the closure I was looking for.
After our chat I am submitting my letter of DA. Not for the sake of the organization's rules, but as the conclusion of final chapter of my life as a witness. For the first time since all this started, I am actually starting to feel free.
So that's what the other shoe looks like. Update with my parents
by Paralipomenon 33 Replies latest jw friends
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Paralipomenon
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OnTheWayOut
Remember, they are in a mind-control cult.
It sounds like you were already crystal clear in previous discussion.
Mom is just looking for a way to break her own part of the understanding if
she ever feels guilty from pressure from the cult. You are doing great by
sticking to your "yes meaning yes." I salute you. -
Hortensia
there's nothing like telling the truth and letting the other party deal with it however they want to. I find it ironic that she wants to have a talk with you to set some boundaries, ignoring the fact that you have already clearly set a boundary. I agree entirely that if they shun you, they are shunning the entire family. And you know that if they shun you but have access to the kids, they will screw up the kids as much as they possibly can.
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Scully
"You are making a stand against Jehovah, that's something we cannot support"
How can it possibly be that participating in holidays = "making a stand against Jehovah" when the BIBLE clearly says, in Romans 14:1-13
Welcome the [man] having weaknesses in [his] faith, but not to make decisions on inward questionings. One [man] has faith to eat everything, but the [man] who is weak eats vegetables. Let the one eating not look down on the one not eating, and let the one not eating not judge the one eating, for God has welcomed that one. Who are you to judge the house servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for Jehovah can make him stand.
One [man] judges one day as above another; another [man] judges one day as all others; let each [man] be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day observes it to Jehovah. Also, he who eats, eats to Jehovah, for he gives thanks to God; and he who does not eat does not eat to Jehovah, and yet gives thanks to God. None of us, in fact, lives with regard to himself only; for both if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. Therefore both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah. For to this end Christ died and came to life again, that he might be Lord over both the dead and the living.
But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you also look down on your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God; for it is written: " 'As I live,' says Jehovah, 'to me every knee will bend down, and every tongue will make open acknowledgement to God.' " So, then, each of us will render an account for himself to God.
Therefore let us not be judging one another any longer, but rather make this your decision, not to put before a brother a stumbling block or cause for tripping. I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is defiled in itself; only where a man considers something to be defiled, to him it is defiled.
It's JWs who make the stink about holidays being offensive, but according to the BIBLE, there is no room for Christians to judge one another on the basis of individual convictions. The BIBLE makes it clear that it is a symptom of spiritual weakness when one Christian judges another, on things that they do which are not clearly contrary to scripture. The scripture also makes it clear that it is a symptom of spiritual weakness when one Christian abstains from things that are not clearly contrary to scripture and also attempts to impose his will on another.
This is where I've had a measure of success in reasoning with my JW family members. The BIBLE (God's word, right?) isn't saying "don't observe holidays". The WTS does. And doesn't Rev. 22:18, 19 caution anyone from adding or taking away from God's word to suit their own purposes? So why does the WTS insist on adding to the Bible, when the Bible doesn't say "abstain from holidays"? They can't answer this question. So they back off and leave us alone.
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tere1998
I love the word "wifflebat" !!!
I applaud you for being true to yourself and what you beleve in. It's so hard to stand up to others when you know they will think you are the devil himself. But you know what? That is THEIR problem. You do what you feel in your heart is right because in the end, we have to answer for what WE do in life. You can't live your life just to please someone else. Your parents might even come around once things settle down and they see that you are not growing horns and that you and your kids are happy.
Big hugs to you!!!
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Paralipomenon
That's a great passage and line of reasoning Scully. I definitely use that, thanks!
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Bobbi
I have to admit, I think I am more upset about Para's parents shunning us than he is. My heart is breaking I am so sad. My parents hate me. Para's parents were my last connection to having a mother and father who love me. My poor little boy has already noticed that Nana hasn't called in two weeks. How do we tell him his beloved Nana won't talk to him any more.
I know we are doing the right thing for ourselves personally, as a couple and most importantly for our family.
I HATE THIS!!!
I AM SO ANGRY AND SAD.
We don't deserve this. Para is the best son anyone could ask for. I don't understand how they could shun him.
Bobbi -
primitivegenius
first stage........ velvet gloves
second stage... wifflebat
third stage... ...Lead Pipe
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primitivegenius
im in between stage 2 and 3
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JWdaughter
"They have been on and off shunning my sister for years, mom would stop talking for a while then exclaim "nobody is getting in between me and my daughter" and they pick back up again. That is precisely the attitude that I think messes kids up. Mom is so used to being in control of the situation, when shunning isn't convenient she flips, when she's feeling guilty, the shunning resumes."
I hope you very clearly show her what you have observed with your sister and why you think it is damaging to your kids-before they have crossed the line where they lose access. Your observation of her insane behavior may make her think. You may have already had that conversation, I don't know. I hope it goes well and they come to their senses. I think my moms shunning stopped when she realized the kids are with ME! It may begin again when my son is 18, if she lives that long, I don't know, I doubt it. I am the only child she has a lot to do with.
I wish you well, and hope it works out. JWs are a piece of work, eh?
Shelly