A deflating talk with my brother re: anti-witnessing,,,,thoughts? (page 2)

TMS

I've never been a JW

A never-been could not possibly have the necessary knowledge to impact a JW's belief system. You would be in over your head. But you can only find that out for yourself.

tms

Twitch

Now, what do you guys think? Would you, knowing what you know now and being free from the WT, would you have appreciated someone like me trying to engage you and...enlighten you about the Witchtower?

Do you think its fruitless? I'm wasting my time? I'm putting my energy into something that'll drag me down?

I feel weird about it sometimes, because to be honest, even though JW's would be shocked to hear it, no one really cares about the religion. It's not a topic I can bring up alot, because people just aren't interested like I am. They kinda glaze over.

I feel like I can't turn my back knowing what I know,,,they're not people who are arguing knowing all the facts, they are lied to and deceived. It's not an equal playing field.

I was just kind of upset and befuddled by his exortations, so I wanted your guys' views on it. I think you may understand me a little better.

Yea, I suppose I would've. Probably would've worked a few things out sooner,...lol. Then again, I didn't go looking for a direct expose for a long time; mileage may differ. But you are not listening until you're ready to hear something, that much is true. This may be the case here. Maybe he'll come to you in time. When pushing doesn't work, try pulling.

I don't think it's fruitless or that you're wasting your time, cos it's family especially. I've been working on my folks for 20 years running and they're still in, :) Whether or not it drags you down depends on you, methinks.

Yea, most people really don't know or give a proverbial rat's a$$ about the dubs or their kooky beliefs. A few have related interests and may like discuss some things but for most, it's a conversation killer, if not a diversion at least.

No it isn't a level playing field, on many levels actually. This one strikes close to home, naturally and 'tis natural to want to even it out there, no?

I know I held onto to some things about what it was to be a dub for longer than I realized, to this day. Some things I shed early on, some things not until I was ready to. Sometimes, I look around and see some people who were there from day one and appreciate them for being there throughout the stages of my life in regards to this thing. And it was never about who I was, but who I am with them. Or something like that,....

Your mileage may vary,....

smellsgood

Yea, I suppose I would've. Probably would've worked a few things out sooner,...lol. Then again, I didn't go looking for a direct expose for a long time; mileage may differ. But you are not listening until you're ready to hear something, that much is true. This may be the case here. Maybe he'll come to you in time. When pushing doesn't work, try pulling.

I don't think it's fruitless or that you're wasting your time, cos it's family especially. I've been working on my folks for 20 years running and they're still in, :) Whether or not it drags you down depends on you, methinks. >>>

Shoot Twitch, I wasn't clear! I had to go back and edit my post because of you! Thankfully, NONE of my family immediate or otherwise have ever been one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I'm an anomaly, a cult nerd.

Good grief, twenty years? That is rather discouraging...sorry Twitch. I suppose it just speaks to the cunning of the WT manipulation.

I'm preparing to meet with the Witnesses who came back when I asked them to. I got one of their # and e-mail, and I plan on meeting them in person when I've got all my material prepared.

I wish I could just meet one, but I suppose I'll have to have two.

smellsgood

btw, my brother's in the Army National Guard,,,living in Spectres neck of the woods.

smellsgood

A never-been could not possibly have the necessary knowledge to impact a JW's belief system. You would be in over your head. But you can only find that out for yourself.

tms

>>>

Normally I would agree with you. But I am a special headcase. Besides, I would propose that I have a slight edge: I cannot be called an "apostate." They cannot immediately slap me with that label and shun me.

TMS, I have read this board for five years, read COC, read everything on freeminds, jwfacts, jwfiles, all the quotes on quotes when it was up....I have debated lifelong JW's for an entire year online, I may not know everything, and I certainly would never say I know what it is to be a JW, but I think I can say with utmost confidence, I am one hundred times informed as a practicing Witness about their religion. I am also extremely informed and knowledgeable about cults in general. It has been an area of intense interest and study for me.

I know there are gaps because of my non-experience, this board has been the biggest help in that area. I can read others experiences, and I have. I think my greatest hope is my passion for it.

I can understand why you would think that though ;)

Vernon Williams

The problem with folks talking to the JWs is this: the ~~mythology~~ theology of the WT is so abstact and non-traditional that individuals do not know "where" the JW is in the conversation.

You do.

You "know" the cult conditioned language and the underflow of thought and emotion that are contained in the "coded" words and phrases of the WT.

And, from the comments on this board, many were looking for something better while in the WT.

So,

avoid the topics in which the JWs are well trained: trinity, state of the dead, and the kingdom.

Focus on the soft underbelly of the WT: central theme of the good news and the fact that one must falsify information as a pledge of loyalty.

Share a cup of coffee or a glass of ice tea. Show loving concern. An invitation to return. Build a personal relationship with the JW. Plant seeds that can be watered in places like this.

A few thoughts,

V

smellsgood

avoid the topics in which the JWs are well trained: trinity, state of the dead, and the kingdom.>>>

Thank you Vernon! EXACTLY my approach. :)

TMS

TMS, I have read this board for five years, read COC, read everything on freeminds, jwfacts, jwfiles, all the quotes on quotes when it was up....I have debated lifelong JW's for an entire year online, I may not know everything, and I certainly would never say I know what it is to be a JW, but I think I can say with utmost confidence, I am one hundred times informed as a practicing Witness about their religion. I am also extremely informed and knowledgeable about cults in general. It has been an area of intense interest and study for me.

I know there are gaps because of my non-experience, this board has been the biggest help in that area. I can read others experiences, and I have. I think my greatest hope is my passion for it.

I can understand why you would think that though ;)

Well, SG, I certainly wish you well. You have the ammunition. But that arsenal will simply bounce off the average JW. I've had a few low-voltage conversations with JW's where they have bared their private concerns. It's such a delicate operation to reinforce that private doubt with your own experience. It is altogether too easy to provide more information than necessary. You may not be regarded as an apostate in the strictest sense, but a unloading a barrage of negatives will certainly spook the victim you're trying to free.

Please keep us informed.

tms

smellsgood

It's such a delicate operation to reinforce that private doubt with your own experience. It is altogether too easy to provide more information than necessary. You may not be regarded as an apostate in the strictest sense, but a unloading a barrage of negatives will certainly spook the victim you're trying to free.

Please keep us informed.

tms

I will definitely do so. I understand about the negatives, thank you for the reminder. It will be very difficult not to pounce on every topic for sure. I do have a plan, and it involves NOT talking about the WT, or presenting quotes or information on the WT specifically for a long time. If you look at my post about the Mormon Parallels, maybe it'll give you a peek into my strategy :) That, and questions that I don't answer right away like the WT. Wise as a serpent, innocent as a dove.

Metamorphosis

I like the quote in your initial post:

"evil endures when good men remain silent."

Even though we know that the things we have learned may indeed "bounce" off most good JW's, that they may fall upon deaf ears - when the opportunity presents itself I think we should attempt what good we can. Who knows what seeds of malcontent we may lay?

Morph

A deflating talk with my brother re: anti-witnessing,,,,thoughts?

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