better offf dead?

by matt_holgate 18 Replies latest jw experiences

  • matt_holgate
    matt_holgate

    I’ve been visiting for some time, but until now haven’t said much. I would appreciate some observations on the latest episode between me and my JW mother, like whether this is something I should ignore or try to resolve.

    I was DF’d at thirteen, five years ago, for being a gay atheist. I didn’t become homeless only because my mother was/is ill with MS, we maintained a just workable relationship so that I could stay and help her look after herself.

    The last three years relations became more tense as I began to piece together what had happened since she joined the org when I was about 3. She demanded yesterday to know why, and I let her have it.

    I told her how fucking petrified of life I was as a kid, hearing about Armageddon and the ‘world’. About how I felt being made to sit outside hymn class reading the “great teacher” book (social isolation aside, it was neon fucking PINK).

    I even told her why I nearly offed myself just before the DF’ing: the conflict between the org’s directives and my being gay (I remember praying about it, just like the “Youth” book recommended (at least that one was red)). And about how this was worse later on when I learned she had gay friends in the past, meaning that her reaction was solely a product of the org’s effect on her.

    I told her that I wish she had protected me from the Watchtower, that she shouldn’t have let a kid get anywhere near them when I was so young I couldn’t understand what was going on.

    Her response was that I seemed so enthusiastic about it when I was four. That I wanted to live in the ‘New System”…
    Of course I did. I believed whatever I was told at that age, and playing with the kids of the sister that studied with my mother was fun, but that wasn’t quite enough.

    She went on, and told me that she never wanted, and still doesn’t want to, see the new system, that she did it all so that I could. Then she pointed out all the shit she went through before joining – getting ill and my dad going AWOL – and suggesting that that was why things worked out the way they did. Which of course is true. My old man and her illness definitely both have something to answer for here, but they can’t be held completely responsible.

    Her killer line, based on her hopes for my ‘everlasting life’ was, in response to my near suicide, that “maybe it would be better if I did die.” I assume her logic being that I’d have the hope of a resurrection and a chance to repent of my sins that way. Regardless of the control the cult has on her, that was I something I never expected to hear. I didn’t even get angry when I heard it. I just left.

    I’m strongly tempted to leave it here. I don’t know if there’s anything left of her to hang around for. I’d appreciate the thoughts of any parents or kids who might know where I’m coming from.

  • oompa
    oompa
    “maybe it would be better if I did die.” I assume her logic being that I’d have the hope of a resurrection and a chance to repent of my sins that way. Regardless of the control the cult has on her, that was I something I never expected to hear. I didn’t even get angry when I heard it. I just left.

    Matt, so sorry for the problems WT has directly caused you. Your mother of course is disturbed, and probably will never not be disturbed. The 4-year old comment is as unbelieavble as the one above. You will only be able to deal with this by totally "putting her and her thoughts in a box" and never ever looking inside. You can certainly leave and no one would blame you, but I have a feeling your sense of decency and responsiblity will keep you assisting her.

    just don't try to care so much...oompa

  • tula
    tula

    I am so sorry that the one person you especially count on for kindness and comfort has been so cruel to you.

    If she would read her bible more carefully...the scripture actually says the resurrection is for the just and the unjust.

    and this dog dukey about if you die at armageddon you will not come back is malarkey. Show me the money!

    A JW elder wife told me that they DO expect many witnesses to die at Armageddon. Which leads me to think Armageddon will be indiscriminate.

    I wouldn't worry so much about armagedon and resurection. I say make some time to appreciate the life you have NOW. I think the biggest sin is in not appreciating what you have. And none of us are guaranteed tomorrow.

  • ex-nj-jw
    ex-nj-jw

    Matt - Welcome to JWD

    I'm sorry you have had to go through this. I too was raised a JW and I have a very toxic mother. She has said more hurtfull things to me than helpfull. Eventually, I learned to accept it for what it is. She is delusional, mentally disturbed and so blinded by the JW cult that she honestly thinks that what she says and does is right.

    You will probably stay and take care of your mother, I too love my mother and would take care of her (have done it already), but you learn to not allow them to hurt you, set your boundaries and when those boundaries are crossed you have to let her know that she has crossed it and put her back where she belongs!

    Hang around here I'm sure other's will be along to give more support and advise.

    nj

  • flipper
    flipper

    First of all Matt, welcome to JWD. I'm so sorry you have gone through the pain and suffering you have at such a young age. You are among friends here on this board, and many young ones like yourself have gone through terrible circumstances too. You are not alone , my friend.

    I'm sure you understand what led your mom to say the things she said, in regards to the " better off dead" comment. Witnesses are programmed to feel that way as you said because of their view of an alleged "resurrection hope", where people will have a chance to atone their alleged "sins". Matt the life we have is very valuable and there are many positive things we can do with it. Being out of the organization is great and gives us all kinds of opportunities to press on , learn new things! Your mom does love you, she is just controlled by a mind controlling cult, in which thinking outside the "box" they only provide, is looked down upon.

    A little more information would be helpful here from you, if you feel comfortable sharing. So some may know how to help and advise you. You mentioned something about your mom and/or dad being ill, and that having a bearing on current circumstances for you. Do they have a chemical illness? Perhaps depression? Is it a physical ailment of some sort? Want to assist you the best way possible. So feel free to share, if you want to pm me, feel free for privacy sake. But we welcome you here, and value you my friend. Look forward to hearing more. I'll help more if you share more. I don't want to shoot advice off the cuff without more info. But, you are better off alive and posting! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

  • changeling
    changeling

    I'm sorry your mom said that. I know it must hurt. She's speaking according to what she's been taught. She believes that if Armageddon came tomorrow you would die, but if you were already dead you would have the hope of a resurrection.

    It's warped, it's stupid, it makes no sense. But I've got to believe that as your mom she does love you, Hold on to that thought.

    Be glad that you are out and your eyes are open. Go to school, make a life for yourself, be happy.

    A good life is the best revenge.

    All the best,

    changeling

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    Matt, your mother doesn't deserve you.

    Certainly at four years of age you were as qualified as she was to evalute belief systems, and that BIG selling point -- your very own PONY! ... AND a LION!!! -- were deal-makers, of course.

    What your Mom got out of her years of association with Jehovah's Pure Worshippers is a harsh, judgemental and condemnatory attitude toward everything that wasn't stamped with the WTB&TS imprimatur, even her own long suffering, devoted, intelligent and loving son.

    I'd tell her, "Rely on Jehovah! Adios, mamacita!"

    Your Mom and mine could be cast from the same mold. My Dad split too, and like you, I am an atheist. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I was about 7 when she started her free home bible study, and in less than a year there was no family left.

    Of course you know that you are NOT better off dead. There is no Sky Daddy, no salvation, no resurrection and no Paradise. This life is our "one night only" performance. We don't need an imaginary superhero to give us values; if we do, there's always Superman, who also felt like a 'strange visitor from another planet."

    Maybe JWD can become part of your "family of the heart." Be good to yourself, take care of yourself.

  • matt_holgate
    matt_holgate

    Hi all,

    Thanks for your comments. It's nice to hear from some friendly people occasionally.

    Some more details, Flipper? Basic chronology was that when i was about 1 1/2, mum started getting ill with multiple sclerosis, which affects the brain and spinal cord, which is mostly physical, but can cause some psychological impairment too (its hard to tell whether something is directly caused by the illness, or by the stress of it though). Its degenerative, and shes on her way to a full paralysis on one side of the body.

    Dad decided when I was 2 to leave and move in with my future stepmother, and it was about six months after that mum became a return visit, soon started studying (hence her being on the edge of committing when i was about 4/5ish). She was baptized when I was I think 8.

    I was the well behaved JW kid till shortly after my own baptism (12). I just held my hands up to her and said I wanted out, and here's why. She's straight on the phone, a JC is arranged, and I'm out. After which, conversation at home remained limitted to details of domestic chores.

    I've stayed put, probably because I felt obligated. I was curious about whether she'd ever come round, but I'm now pretty sure she wouldn't.

    Cheers people.

  • BFD
    BFD

    Hi Matt and welcome to JWD.

    You have gotten some real good advice here and right now I don't have anything else to offer. You sound like a very kind, thoughtful young man and your devotion to your mother is commendable. Not many people would put up with that kind of abuse and stay around for more.

    It's hard to brush off those kinds of hurtful assaults especially when they come from your mom. But, you are better off alive, Matt. Don't let anyone make you believe anything different.

    Welcome, again and keep posting.

    BFD

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    Welcome to the site and thanks for your story.

    Over time and many discussions with my parents I came to be able to sometimes distinguish between the real them and the cult personality. A lot of what a JW says is robotic and from indoctrination. That allows me to overlook comments like that.

    Family are important, and if you walk away you will probably regret it in the future. I would suggest ignoring such comments for your own peace of mind.

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