Bible Law encourages pedophilia-really, not a joke. See Deut. 22:25-29

by oompa 23 Replies latest jw friends

  • oompa
    oompa

    These sex laws have bothered me for some time. Until coming here I was unaware of all the pedophilia problems in the org. The interesting thing about these two Bible laws are that if a girl was engaged, and screamed during rape, the rapist only is executed. However, if it was an un-engaged virgin that was raped, then (oh my God) the poor girl gets to marry her rapist!!!! Now that in itself is horrible enough. But in a family and child driven society such as the Jews had, very young engagements were a protection, and very young marriages were common. That would induce rapists that did not want to get executed, or perhaps were ugly and wanted a beautiful young maiden, to go after younger and younger girls/victims (and yes children). And then gets her as a wife for fifty silver coins.

    I pointed this out to my book study conductor during a chapter on Jehovah being a God of Justice. He had no comment.

    Disturbing......oompa

    Deut. 22: 25 "If, however, it is in the field that the man found the girl who was engaged, and the man grabbed hold of her and lay down with her, the man who lay down with her must also die by himself, 26 and to the girl you must do nothing. The girl has no sin deserving of death, because just as when a man rises up against his fellowman and indeed murders him, even a soul, so it is with this case. 27 For it was in the field that he found her. The girl who was engaged screamed, but there was no one to rescue her.

    28

    "In case a man finds a girl, a virgin who has not been engaged, and he actually seizes her and lies down with her, and they have been found out, 29 the man who lay down with her must also give the girl’s father fifty silver shekels, and she will become his wife due to the fact that he humiliated her. He will not be allowed to divorce her all his days.
  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk

    Yep.

    Master misogynist.

  • LoverOfTruth
    LoverOfTruth

    There are many passages in the Bible that disturb me because they tend to dimish the value of women and children. But then, didn't men create it?

  • tula
    tula

    oompa...you are pulling out some very disturbing scriptures tonight. And there are lots more where those came from.

    If there is any redeeming aspect of having been associated with the JWs, its the fact that most everyone on this board has a capacity to dig deeper and think broader. Because of the oppression we have endured, I think we are all less afraid to dissect these verses. We have all been hungry for the real truth. Wbts was just a step along the way. Maybe it taught us to have more critical thinking because we could not get questions answered.

    Still, much in that book is very disturbing.

    At least we are not like candy coated christians that just sing happy songs and say god is good...some people never explore. Even JWs some never explore beyond the boundaries.

    I think we all are here (on this board)...because WE DO.

    what a journey this life is.

  • GoingGoingGone
    GoingGoingGone

    Women were viewed as property in that society. The rapist was not considered to be committing a crime against the virgin he raped, but against her father, who would lose the bride price she could bring him if she were no longer a virgin.

    These kinds of scriptures always bothered me, too, because of the obvious lack of concern for the feelings of the women who lived back then. The Mosaic law had all kinds of insane rules and regulations that were a hardship for women. How could this law have been given to the people by a loving God, one who loved men and women equally? It made no sense to me.

    GGG

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Interesting point about this possible "perverse effect" of the legal arrangement (and also, on the "positive" side, on the protecting value of early engagement). A related problem is the absence of a minimum age for marriage (hence for sex with an unengaged girl in view of marrying her). Puberty is tacitly assumed but never explicitly stated.

    It may be noted that in Exodus 22:15f it is up to the girl's father to accept the marriage or not (the guy must pay in either case). Makes the scheme a little more risky.

    One must keep in mind that the extant Torah is neither a consistent nor a complete law code.

    More generally, of course, this testifies to the absurdity of either judging the social organisation of another time and/or place by our own standards, or pretending that we can derive moral or legal guidance from an ancient book...

  • zack
    zack

    I think you're logic on this one is a stretch. Disagree with the rules of an ancient society if you wish; but to say that this particular passage is proof that pedophilia is ENCOURAGED, is frankly laughable. The law on its face serves as a basis to protect the innocent within the context of its time. Defiled virgins were unmarraigeable and therefore would be rendered homeless and childless. These laws served as a measure of protection for women.

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    Such were the laws of those ancient days and to a great extend they still exist in modern times in the Moslem religion where women and children are definitely second class citizens. The Moslems took a lot from the OT and the norms of the then (6th century) Arabian Semitic society.

    Rough as the Mosaic law was in some places it was much better than other laws of that era. Fortunately Christianity did away with it.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    greendawn,

    This kind of legal or customary stuff has actually little to do with religion: compare ancient Israel with the rest of the Ancient Near East or muslim and non-muslim (yes, including Christian) areas in rural Asia or Africa (or even Europe before the industrial revolutions) and you will hardly notice any significant difference as to the status of women and children.

  • Dorktacular
    Dorktacular

    28 "In case a man finds a girl, a virgin who has not been engaged, and he actually seizes her and lies down with her, and they have been found out, 29 the man who lay down with her must also give the girl’s father fifty silver shekels, and she will become his wife due to the fact that he humiliated her. He will not be allowed to divorce her all his days.

    Oompa, I think you might be a little bit wrong on this one. I don't think verses 28 and 29 indicate rape. Jewish law, much like modern American law, places the responsibility and much of the punishment on the males when it comes to sex. Even if a girl consents to sex but the girl is too young under the law, the male participant is considered a rapist. In most states it is referred to as Statutory Rape. So, in much of history, the male has always been considered the agressor, even if that wasn't the case. In ancient times, and even now in some countries, girls are married off or betrothed to a man when they reach the age of sexual maturity. The country where my wife is from still practices this. When she reached puberty, she had men comming to her house offering her parents money for her hand. So, trust me, it still happens. In bible times, young girls were often engaged and married when they reached the age of sexual maturity. I think for the perposes of these few verses, an engaged girl means a girl that has reached the age of sexual maturity that has already been promised to a man for marriage. I think an unengaged girl means a girl that has reached the age of sexual maturity, but has not yet been promised in marriage.

    I think the first two verses indicate a rape scenario, because the girl is screaming for help. Under such a circumstance, there would be no punishment for the girl, because she did nothing wrong. She was a victim.

    OK, so here's what I think the last two verses mean.... Notice in verse 28 where it say that he lies down with her and "they have been found out". I think that means that they were having sex together and they got caught. It doesn't say that the girl is screaming for help, as in verse 27. I think that what it means is that if the man and woman were having consentual sex together, and the girl wasn't engaged and promised to another man (aka another man's property) they must marry. The man who is having sex with her has claimed her for himself by virtue of having sex with her. After all, I think finding two people in the bushes having sex is a pretty good indicator that they are attracted enough to each other to have sex, so since they've already committed the marriage act, they might as well be married. Also, he must pay a fine for his transgression to the father, because after all if these two were found screwing in the bushes by somebody, it is a shame for the family, and the father is the head of the family in all matters, so he must be the one to collect the fine. In modern terms, this would be considered a "Shotgun Wedding". I don't think that these two verses necessarily indicate pedophilia, because no ages are mentioned. I would assume under the situation I have outlined, the girl involved would have been at least sexually mature enough to be a willing participant in sexual intercourse.

    At least, that's what I think it would mean, knowing what I know about how things were in ancient times and their view of sex, marriage and the view of society that women were property.

    All this being said, I, myself, would think that something so important as this would be better explained by the bible, so we wouldn't think things like pedophilia were happening back then. It leaves too much to interpretation, and I think that all of us can read these same verses and have a completely different understanding of it. Kinda sucks.

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