by eclipse 32 Replies latest watchtower bible
I did not want to hijack this great thread that booker-t started:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/142032/1.ashxon the trinity.
I know the supporting scriptures for the trinity in the New Testament...
I was wondering, are there any ones that support the trinity, or even a dual-god in the Old Testament?
Thank you in advance for all of your comments and scriptures.
I am not wanting to debate, I am simply curious, as the concept of the trinity facinates me.
God said let US make man in his image.
26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
This could mean two seperate people, or one entity with two indentities encompassed into it.
Eclipse: IP is right. There are passages referring to God(s) in plural. These have nothing to do with trinitarianism, they are just remnants from the polytheistic beginnings of judaism. I would just like to add that the trinity-doctrine is not based on single passages (alone), but it is a doctrine that was developed to solve problems that would otherwise arise (contradictions). In the old Testament, Yahweh calls himself "the first and the last", in the NT, Jesus is called "the first and the last". In the OT, Yahweh created the world (alone), in the NT (Gospel of John), nothing is created except thru the son (he created the world). There are countless such contradictions between the NT and the OT that can be solved in one of two ways: A) Create a harmonizing doctrine (the trinity-doctrine), or B) Twist the scriptures. The church early on decided to go with A. The JWs, and other, modern anti-trinitarian "christians" have chosen B).
Trinitarian christians will of course use whatever they can find (such as the plurals mentioned by IP) to support the trinity-doctrine. Here`s how Christians themselves view the (alleged) trinitarianism in the OT:
http://www.catholic.net/rcc/Periodicals/Faith/1998-01-02/trinity.html
http://www.catholic.net/rcc/Periodicals/Faith/1998-03-04/trinity.html
...some of it "holds water", some of it doesn`t (when viewed from a historic rather than christian angle). Nonetheless, its a good read.
Yes hellrider. The scripture in Gen I cited supports actually the pantheon. When Joodaism later became somewhat monotheistic the lesser gods became angels and demons.
Thank you Hellrider, that was the info I was looking for.
Any one else is welcome to comment and share their scriptures here if they wish.
God said let US make man in his image.
Jesus was the first born of creation and all other things were created through him and for him, so let US make man in our image.1cor
IP, Is that the only scripture then?
I feel like I am asking someone to do my homework
How lazy of me
the trinity is a fraud doctrine without support in either testament.
in the OT Yahweh or Jehovah is the El Elohim, the God of [the gods] and the elohim are seen as beings of lesser power than him, but greater than humans
and often called angels or messengers when they come to earth. they are typically desginated as the beni-elohim or the sons of [the gods] meaning part of the guild of god like beings.
and the jews believed the "false" gods were rebel elohim. the world was created by ELOHIM = could mean all of them working as one, not just YHWH.
let US make man in OUR image is again spoken by the elohim. here the man has become like one of US is YHWH to the elohim.
gradually the jews came to see YHWH as the ONLY TRUE GOD, but to them this always included the rest of the faithful elohim as part of his total powerbase...and they were never included in the railings against the false gods.
trinitarians say god is three whos but one what...yet Isaiah clearly says YHWH is ONE person as well as ONE god...not three, no WE nor US, but I and HE.
the pick and chose out of context verses used to create the franken-god trinity from the new testament ignores a lot of contradictory verses which are quite clear.
Hellrider....There is an option C....take each text on its own terms recognize that there are a diversity of theological viewpoints, resisting the urge to harmonize them in either direction.
