I couldn't skip a discussion of Sept KM Question Box

by OnTheWayOut 36 Replies latest jw friends

  • OnTheWayOut

    These are not exact words, but here is the general words we had.

    So my wife gets out of her TMS/Service Mtg. I picked her up. Well, I had to ask about the
    Service Meeting. "Who conducted the Question Box from the KM?"

    "Brother XYZ."

    "What did you think of that information?"

    "They just don't want us to be distracted with debates."

    "You mean they don't want anyone to do research to see if their views are correct."

    "Research is fine, it just shouldn't be done in an overly-critical way. Plus, they know that
    people don't have time to learn Hebrew and Greek for themselves, so they cannot depend on
    brief lessons to start comparing the opinions of experts."

    (Okay, so her cong. focused on language and reliance on experts.)

    "They are suggesting you rely on their experts. They just had a handful of men like Fred Franz
    who weren't exactly experts in Ancient Hebrew and Greek to translate the NWT. What's wrong
    with comparing what other experts have to say, just as the Witnesses did?"

    "The translators were anonymous, they could have had experts."

    (She doesn't really think about what I say, other than to insert JW teachings or look for JW flaws
    in what I said.) "The point is they compared what experts outside of their religion said. The Boreans
    were praised for comparing what the Apostle said with the scriptures. Jesus said 'where two or three
    are gathered in my name, my spirit is there.' If we want to gather together and examine the ancient Greek
    and Hebrew, or do it on our own, this is a good thing."

    "Well, what have you found wrong with the NWT?"

    "For starters, all the manuscripts that were found NEVER had the name 'Jehovah' in the New Testament.
    The NWT inserts the name and says their version of the Bible is a better translation, closer to the original.
    If they put the name in and it was never there, then their translation is not faithful to the original."

    (After much confusion on her part about the name belonging or not, a brief discussion of the name actually
    being in the Hebrew, but not ever in the Greek, she continues.) "Why do they say they put the name there?"

    "You can look that up in your own WT literature. To be brief, they take the liberty of deciding that wherever the
    NT writers quote the OT, and the OT contained 'Jehovah,' then the NT should put 'Jehovah' in the text."

    "What sources can you site that 'Jehovah' isn't in the NT?"

    "We are in the car, I haven't saved a list of sources for you somewhere. I can if you want me to, but the burden
    is not upon me to come up with sources that you won't read. The burden is upon the WTS to give you
    sources, and upon you and every Christian to do research perhaps starting with their sources and going wherever
    you want to learn more. You don't have to learn Hebrew or Greek."

    "What's another problem with the NWT?"

    "The scriptures that lead us to believe the disciples went 'door-to-door' are misleading. That is one way to translate
    the Greek term for their ministry. The more common way is to translate, 'in private homes.' Without comparing and
    learning what was meant, the WT uses their version to tell Witnesses that the disciples were engaged in knocking
    on each and every door, and today, Witnesses copy that example. If you learn from experts and comparisons, the
    context and the reading helps you to see that they did not go to everybody's house with the Good News, but that they
    held meetings in private homes- similar to the bookstudy, they didn't use the temple but gathered in groups to learn
    the Good News at people's homes."

    "So are you saying the door-to-door work is wrong."

    (She is looking to just justify the JW warnings that those that turn apostate just don't want to do door-to-door work.)
    "That type of work is not wrong, it is just not in imitation of what the first-century Christians did. JW's act as if
    everything is done in imitation of Christ or the first-century congregations. That's the misleading part. The guys who
    stand on a downtown corner with a bullhorn preaching are doing a work closer to the disciples in the Bible. They took
    the Good News to the marketplace."

    "Well, I am not able to continue this discussion now."

    "I just want to say that I think it is dangerous not to do personal research. It is dangerous to listen to only the WTS
    without comparing what other experts say."

    "We will have to talk about this more, later."

    (She doesn't mean that last sentence. She won't want to discuss this. She won't look up any of what we discussed
    and she will get a headache or have too much to do if it comes up again.)

  • megsmomma

    You are planting the seeds.....You never know how they'll be watered. You are doing a great job....sooner or later it seems it will have to sink in!

  • changeling

    Par for the course.

    Dad had his meeting Tuesday and a "brief" elders meeting afterwards. Wish I could have been a fly on the wall.

    Hang in there,


  • fokyc

    Thank you for writing that 'OnTheWayOut',

    I am in exactly the same position but just can't be bothered/too tired to write down the dialogue between Sister Fokyc and myself.

    It always follows the same lines though, the WTBTS are a wonderful bunch and I must stop trying to find fault with them.


  • Blueblades

    She is in her comfort zone. She does not know what to do if she is shaken from it. It becomes a shock to learn that what you believed is no longer true. It will take time and patience on your part. You answered her well. I'm sure that the sept km will be a discussion for some time to come among the rank and file.


  • OnTheWayOut
    You are planting the seeds.....You never know how they'll be watered. You are doing a great job....sooner or later it seems it will have to sink in!

    I hope so. This is really part of my recent minor depression over fading. I just can't sit there
    and say nothing. A fader has to keep his mouth shut most of the time. I can do that with the
    elders and the witlesses that aren't really going to be there anymore as friends, but it is just
    so damned frustrating when a loved one goes to the hall and takes in this garbage. My wife is
    such a good "thinker" but she can sit there and vegetate at the meeting without concern for
    what she is hearing. That is warped.

    I know Dawg or Johnny Cip would say to just come out and say everything that needs to be said.
    If it were just the wife, I would do that. But I also have the mother to be concerned about and
    in-laws that are near to the religion. If I could get either the wife or mother out, I would just walk
    away from all things related to JW's.

  • Younglove1999

    wow- interesting!

    I was kind of hoping my mom would bring it up today when she came by to babysit- come to fiind out she missed last nights meeting....and the past 3 weeks worth of meetings-

    I'm just dying for someone to mention it to me-

    I was thinking about how true it is that once we're baptized, any sort of "thinking" is practicaly prohibted. So what the FDS is telling me is that what I learned at the age of 12 is finite. I should no longer have any other questions, there's no more room for me to grow and no reason for me to expound on my thoughts and beliefs. Interesting...

  • TheListener

    My God!! Were you listening to a conversation my wife and I had?

    You're so right, they don't actually listen to a thing we say.

    In my opinion they actually listen to just enough to find a plausible (to them at least) error in your statement or reasoning so their justified in ignoring everything else you say on the subject.

  • OnTheWayOut
    I should no longer have any other questions, there's no more room for me to grow and no reason for me to expound on my thoughts and beliefs. Interesting...

    That's reality, but not the JW world. All your questions should take you to your WT Library. Any need
    to expound on your thoughts must bring you more into harmony with their thoughts. You don't need
    to examine your beliefs because you are "in the truth." That's what the JW world thinks.

  • startingover

    Good try OTWO,

    If I were to get into this conversation with my wife, we could just skip from the first question to "Leave me alone, I don"t want to talk about it." At least you got as far as you did. And I feel like you do about having to keep your mouth shut. Very frustrating.

    Comfort zone indeed.

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