Is this the BEST of all POSSIBLE WORLDS? Depends on this...!

Terry

IF humanity were created by a Supreme Being who was essentially good wouldn't this be the best of all possible worlds?

Both Adam and Eve lacked what they desired most. How is that the best of all possible worlds?

Wouldn't it be necessary at a minimum that the nature of humanity exactly match their limits?

In other words, if what was demanded of humanity exceeded their nature would that not guarantee their downfall?

Stated still another way; how can man desire unless he lacks what he desires? The desire and the lack were built-in, were they not?

Adam was not equal to God. Eve was not either.

Adam did not have knowledge of "good" and "evil". Eve did not either.

The desire to be like God and to know what their heavenly father knew was mismatched by the restraints placed upon them. (A chicken can sit on a chicken egg and not crush it. But, a man can't. Command a man to sit on a chicken egg and not crush it and you have a mess.)

It was not the best of all possible worlds. It was built to fail.

However, what if the psychology of God were thus:

Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome: endangering your children so that you can rescue them.

God's psychology was aberrant and the result is the world we have.

If God were dysfunctional psychologically; this IS the best of all possible worlds from such a creator!

Think about it.

Terry

Red this article on Munchause by Proxy Syndrome: http://www.kidshealth.org/parent/general/sick/munchausen.html

nvrgnbk

Sick bastard!

No.

Not you, Terry.

God.

LittleToe

I honestly can't be arsed debating the subject but I would like to throw a few spanners into the works of your argumentation, for the sake of peer review

Firstly, how many different ways can a single individual dream up to attack a strawman "god"? Secondly, you presuppose a lot regarding individuals thoughts, feelings and desires, be those of Adam, Eve, or God.

IF humanity were created by a Supreme Being who was essentially good wouldn't this be the best of all possible worlds?

If this is your opening premise then you are also essentially inferring that all scientists involved in animal cognitive testing are a bunch of psychologically aberrant individuals.

endangering your children so that you can rescue them.

You're making an assumption that attempts to pull at the emotional strings of your readers, by invoking a scenario involving kids. It would assume that we were "children" in every human sense that we are aware of, and that "God" is somehow a parent in the same manner.

I'm guessing your childhood involved no similar games with toys or pets

AuldSoul

I find it endlessly amusing that you rationalize against God by using a story many Christians don't take literally. The best part is where you misstate the case against God in your haste to convict.

Both Adam and Eve lacked what they desired most.

Um ... I don't remember that part of the story. The woman saw that is was good for food and desirable to the eyes ... like a banana, or a pineapple upside-down cake. The man found that the woman had eaten it and chose her over life. You convert that narrative accounting into "what they desired most"?

Hilarious.

Also, the desire in Eve did not arise innately, according to the narrative. She was deceptively led to the desire by a spirit creature who already wanted to be like God. You misrepresent this portion of the account, as well. Since your entire argument rests on Adam and Eve desiring something at the point of their creation (logically required by the system being "built to fail") that God was unwilling to give them, and since that detail isn't reported in the narrative you reference as your basis for claim of Tort against God, you have no case.

But your attempt was funny as hell!

Terry

Firstly, how many different ways can a single individual dream up to attack a strawman "god"?

God speaks for Himself, doesn't he? His wisdom pours out of the text, does it not? God's view of children vis a vis parents is crystal clear.

Can you handle the truth of scripture

Everything from physical abuse, beatings and death are prescribed by the Perfect Law of God. Add to that the curse placed upon innocent children born to parents who did not marry!

Folly is bound up in the heart of a boy, but the rod of discipline drives it far away.

(Prov. 22:15)
Do not withhold discipline from your children; if you beat them with a rod, they will not die. If you beat them with the rod, you will save their lives from Sheol.

(Prov. 23:13-14)

Those born of an illicit union shall not be admitted to the assembly of the LORD. Even to the tenth generation, none of their descendants shall be admitted to the assembly of the LORD.

(Deut. 23:2)
Proverbs 20:30 "Blows that wound cleanse away evil; beatings make clean the innermost parts."
If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father and mother, who does not heed them when they discipline him, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his town at the gate of that place. They shall say to the elders of his town, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard." Then all the men of the town shall stone him to death. So you shall purge the evil from your midst; and all Israel will hear, and be afraid.

(Deut. 21:18-21)
Numbers 14:18, where it is declared that this god would be "visiting the iniquity of the parents upon the children to the third and the fourth generation."

What can I say that paints this God in a worse light than he paints himself?

fresia

well that's because everything is going ok for you.

LittleToe

Terry:

God speaks for Himself, doesn't he?

Does He? In what manner? Is this an anti-sales pitch for "Bible God"?

His wisdom pours out of the text, does it not?

You make assumptions regarding the level of credance I give to musty tomes

You quote the book of Proverbs (which makes no claim to have been spoken by God) and Deuteronomy (which are the claims of one man commonly known as Moses). Can you verify that either of these sources were constructed at the instigation of, and expressed the will of, "God"?

Terry

You're making an assumption that attempts to pull at the emotional strings of your readers, by invoking a scenario involving kids. It would assume that we were "children" in every human sense that we are aware of, and that "God" is somehow a parent in the same manner.

Were we not instructed by Jesus himself to pray: "Our Father..."?

JESUS said, "be not ye called Rabbi, for ONE is your Master, even CHRIST and all ye are brethen. And call no man your father upon the earth, for ONE is your FATHER which is in heaven. Neither be ye called Masters; for ONE is your MASTER, even CHRIST. " " Matthew 23: 8-10.

The New Testament (according to Paul's teaching) pretty much makes clear that God does as he pleases in creating some people only fit for destruction. Pharoah, for example, was God's whipping boy to show off his super power in relation to a human ruler. Like a potter; God breaks some pots (imperfectly made!) and finds use for the others (better made and selected for use).

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction

No strawman is needed!

LittleToe

Terry:

And call no man your father upon the earth, for ONE is your FATHER which is in heaven.

Doesn't that make it abundantly clear that in Jesus view "God" could not be identified with human parents?

Is this the BEST of all POSSIBLE WORLDS? Depends on this...!

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