B - I - NGO?

MutualRespectPlease2

Hello friends its me, MutualRespectPlease. I messed up my earlier registration, so now I am MRP2. I have been doing a bunch of research on the different responses I got from you regarding my posts from the beginning of August. The first one is the United Nations NGO. I am working on the Barbara Anderson CD now. but back to the NGO.
I don’t think what they did was wrong.
I read tons of stuff, not just two or three websites. I read the UN Charter, the requirements for an NGO, the Society’s responses both here and in England, some of the past forums here.
Why do I not think the Society was wrong?
What were they trying to accomplish? Running for political office? Trying to become members of the U.N.? I get the feeling you are all looking for any reason to blast the WTS. I think if you step back and look at the whole picture, you can see that the WTS is trying to gain religious freedoms and rights in Europe. There are laws and organizations and meetings and judgments involved. Are any of you experts on those laws? How would YOU go about getting preaching “legally established”? It’s easy to jump on the bandwagon and say WTS is hypocritical but how would YOU do it in Europe?
No one on these forums seems to address that the goal here was to establish rights to preach in those countries. The WTS is not just sitting down in an office doing nothing and waiting, they are trying and trying. And you guys are criticizing them? Do you think that’s fair? Do you think that they are benefiting somehow from doing this? Are they getting money? Prestige? Power? No one on these forum ever addresses the fact that individuals in the WTS are not getting rich or powerful, as is the case with cults.
I lived in Bethel, I have been in their rooms, I have been on cheapo flights with them, I have seen them go to work everyday for no money. I have driven with them in their gross old cars, or driven in those Buicks that they don’t own with a Bethel driver. Big deal. So if some of you would just sit back and think MOTIVE then you would realize that the WTS is just trying their best, and is not perfect. Check out any other organization that is a cult and you will see the guys at the top getting RICH and POWERFUL.
Not this one.
Give me some names of those in the WTS that are getting rich people, or cut the easy point-the-finger criticism.

AlmostAtheist

I think the primary thing that smacks me on this one is the fact that if your average JW joined the YMCA to use the swimming pool, he would be disfellowshipped. But if the Watchtower registers with the UN's Department of Public Information in order to get a library card, they get off without so much as a "we're sorry, we screwed up".

It's not that there's no legitimate reason for doing it (I'm not arguing that one way or the other), it's the double-standard in dealing with it.

Dave

reneeisorym

The WTS asks people to not be a part of any politial or religious organization. You can be disfellowshipped for joining the YMCA! The WTS claims that the U.N. in particular is the evil party in Revelation. So shouldn't the WTS be disfellowshipped for not following its own rules?

I don't think that what they did in itsself was wrong either -- its the fact that they do not allow the members to do what they do themselves.

So if some of you would just sit back and think MOTIVE then you would realize that the WTS is just trying their best, and is not perfect.

If Jehovah was really with them, would they have to disobey his laws to further his Word?

MutualRespectPlease2

Good point

OnTheWayOut

Fully in agreement with Almost Atheist, let me just add that the literature spells out that
the U.N. is a tool of Satan, evil through-and-through. They use stuff like "Get out of her
if you don't want to share in her plagues" to get JW's away from things they deem "part of
the world."

Joining the U.N. just for a library card (I don't think that's the whole story, but I won't argue
that) would be just as bad as the WT saying that misleading statements equate to lies, then for
that same magazine to print endless misleading statements. (Oh wait, that happens.)

Are we just looking for things to pick on them for, yes. When you hold yourself up so high
as God's representative on earth, you must be ready for scrutiny. They are not ready, so they
insist we don't scrutinize them (see Sept. 07 OKM).

MutualRespectPlease2

Another good point. But what is the motive of using a swimming pool compared with the motive of pursuing religious freedoms? Plus, is there really a comparison between the two? I went into a chapel recently to give a funeral discourse for a man who was not a Witness, his wife was, but their family wanted me to give the talk, but if I decided to go to services there every week as a member, would that be a good idea? People are saying that the WTS is corrupt because of they way they are going about trying to achieve religious freedoms. I think we are not looking at the big picture here.

BrentR

Most religions and cults have double standards for thier followers. The WTBTS should try to be different then the rest of them. But instead they do the exact same thing.

If that organization is THE chosen religion then they should be able to withstand some peer review. It certainly is not allowed on the inside so they had better be expecting it from the outside.

The problem is they never in thier wildest dreams envisioned the power of the internet for revealing the real truth and not just thier idea of it. It is out of thier iron fisted control and for the first time in JW history ex JW's can interface and share stories and experiences. Before the information age they pretty much could control people via alienation. Those days are gone and now they have to deal with a little criticism. criticism that they cannot just DF and micromanage thier way out via thier mind controlling publications.

Sunlight is always the best sanitizer.

OnTheWayOut

But what is the motive of using a swimming pool compared with the motive of pursuing religious freedoms?

The information at the U.N. was freely available to all, not just members. Their real goal may have
been to get the U.N. to say they are a mainstream normal religion as they expanded into
developing countries. They wanted to overcome that cult reputation they have.

Joining the YMCA is cheaper than most health clubs. The WTS says to keep our bodies pure
and clean by abstaining from tobacco. What's wrong with exercise to keep our bodies healthy?
What is wrong with using the most cost-efficient facilities in the neighborhood? Besides, didn't
Jesus have a nice garment that wasn't necessary? Didn't he provide wine at a party when everyone
already had SOME wine? Couldn't an inexpensive garment or water have been sufficient? Jesus
had a few good things, just as people who dedicate themselves to the WTS and forego college and
overtime to distribute more literature want to take a dip in a pool. What's wrong with that?

greendawn

The WTS is being judged by its own standards, no one would care one bit about them becoming NGOs in the UN had it not been for the severe way in which they treat JWs that get involved in politics for WHATEVER reason.

The GB members may not be enriching themselves but they do enjoy the power trip of having six million people under their tight control, under their feet, some people may despise money but few will despise glory.

Hellrider

What were they trying to accomplish? Running for political office? Trying to become members of the U.N.? I get the feeling you are all looking for any reason to blast the WTS. I think if you step back and look at the whole picture, you can see that the WTS is trying to gain religious freedoms and rights in Europe. There are laws and organizations and meetings and judgments involved. Are any of you experts on those laws? How would YOU go about getting preaching “legally established”?

Doesn`t matter. How old are you? Were you a member of the movement in the 70s and 80s? I was just a kid then, but even I remember the pictures of the whore riding the beast and the U.N in the background. I was reprimanded for making a drawing of the UN-logo (we were learning about the UN at school) while at a meeting. The WTS said the UN was the whore of Babylon, Satans primary organisation on earth. And they, the WTS were Gods organisation on earth. Gods organisation then jumped into bed with the very one they said was the whore, the one they said was Satans organisation! It doesn`t matter how you try to justify this, or explain this, by saying "the WTS is trying to gain religious freedoms and rights in Europe". The martyrs that died on the arenas in Rome, did they bow down and kiss the feet of the statues of pagan gods to avoid becoming lion-food? No, they didn`t, they chose death. Even if the WTS was condemned and outlawed by the secular authorities worldwide, that would not give them any excuse to join the organisation they themselves for decades had said was the devils tool! The thing is: I don`t really care about being a part of the U.N or not, it`s not me that ever said that the U.N was the whore, the devils instrument, they did! They have condemned themselves according to their own standards! They backpeddled when it suited them. That sucks! Whatever you do in life, you`re supposed to go all the way, and live up to your own standards, not turn and run back in the last inning. The one who lives by the sword, dies by the sword, remember? They`re fu##ing hypocrites, and that`s it.

B - I - NGO?

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