LDB- Hi
"argument by number" do u think it still applies if its the planet were talking about? Not a city, country but the planet.
re: REASON I AM "AGNOSTIC" AND NOT ATHIEST...so which am I?
by fedorE 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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fedorE
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Little Drummer Boy
Hi fedorE,
Although I'm not an expert on proper apllication of debating tactics, the invalid "argument by numbers" approach applies to any circumstance where one debator attempts to point to a percentage or other "large number of the population" instead of actual evidence because this is talking about people's beliefs, not facts.
Going back to my black cat example, it doesn't matter if we talk about only the people of Europe or if we speak of all humans on the planet. If we attempt to say that 75% of people believe that black cats are more evil, therefore they must be more evil, that is an invalid argument. Only by objectively observing whether or not black cats are more or less evil than other colors of cats can we say for sure.
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fedorE
LDB
Evolution took a great number of yrs to achieve its natural course. So being the product of such a course why isn't largest number of the evolutionary path the deciding factor in determining human cognition? (5% non believers 95%some kind of faith based belief) Is it because evolution has produced complex stupidity?
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fedorE
5go
yea ..lol..i know there are christian athiests...the church provides a nice group of ppl to hang with .There are scholars that are athiest and christians and see no problem with attending services. I say good for them.
(also there are straight ppl that act gay and gay ppl that act straight...but thats off topic)
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Little Drummer Boy
fedorE
I think that it has to be taken back down to the basics.
What did evolution produce in humanity that is different than other animals? An animal that is aware of its own existence. Sentience - self-awareness. Other animals do not poses this trait (or if they do, not to any degree that we can measure).
Therefore, we should ponder over and study how this sentience makes us different.
Setting aside for a minute the possibility that gods exist, we get back to the questions: How did it (religion) all start? Where did our gods come from?
Here is one possible and fictional scenario:
Og and his domesticated wolf are out hunting one day (this is back in the far reaches of human history.)
The wolf doesn't care about gods, he just wants to eat and sniff stuff and not die. That is his world.
But, Og is different than his wolf companion. He is human. He takes time to look at the stars at night and wonder what those fires are that hang so high. He wonders why the sky becomes dark and angry and why when it does so, that the voice of the sky shouts at him and blinds him with light. He doesn't understand the things like lightning and thunder that we understand today.
He wonders what the person in the sky wants from him. Og doesn't want that powerful sky person to kill him. He gives Sky Father gifts to see if that will make him happy. He does so by giving up some of his precious meat to the sky father. A God is born....a religion is born.
I believe that the natural course for evolution is that once a species has become sentient, they will begin to explain their world in any ways that they can. For humans, this most often takes the form of the supernatural. As time goes on, the species evolves to realize that these things we thought were gods (lightning for example) are just natural phenomenon. As more time goes on, the species will evolve to believe that we no longer have a need for the "god explanations" for things of the world.
The species that created god in its childhoold will kill god in its maturity.
In fact, we are living in that time right now (and the pace of evolution for the first time in history is being artifcially influenced through technology). When I was young, in my area it was expected that I would go to church. It was unheard of to not go to church. I didn't hear the word atheist or agnostic for many years. But now, it is completely common for people to not go to church. What will it be like in 100 years? Or 500? Churchgoers will be in the minority, I think. Religion will eventually die a slow, wimpering death as we evolve as a species to no longer need our "binky". We won't be afraind of Sky Father any longer.
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fedorE
LDB
But 10 000 YEARS!!! ;plus another 100-500 yrs to come around to "our senses" that is a long ass time! BTW
Do you have any problem whatsoever with evoution that you can discern?
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the dreamer dreaming
experinces are facts, beliefs about them are mostly fiction.
you experience a presence- fact
you FEEL with a CERTAINTY that it is God - fact
it is God - not a fact, just a very compelling conclusion.
in the final analysis there are ONLY experiences as facts, beliefs can be useful, even compelling but there is no way to know if they are absolutely accurate or just seem that way... so Agnosticism seems to me to be the only honest option.
Belief Systems are BS
and there seems nothing worse than a true beLIEveRCONviNcED that you need to accept his Belief System.