Pulling The Trigger—The Watchtower's Discipline

by The wanderer 17 Replies latest jw friends

  • ronin1
    ronin1

    The Wanderer:

    Just remember that there are many other religions out there that offer scriptual and biblical structure along with community educational programs, elderly programs, etc and not use the cult-like mechanisms that the WTS has used.

    There are many other religions out there preach to its members not to be prejudice, against immorality, etc. and not use the cult-like mechanisms that the WTS has used.

    So almost anyone could have obtained the necessary disciplinary skills to be successful in life with other religious organizations, as long as they applied what they were taught.

    We did not need the WTS to do this. What we needed from the WTS was to be honest and trustworthy and to teach only what the Bible says and not put they own 'spin' on their interpretation of the Bible to satisfy their desire for monetary greed and power control of its members.

    Ronin1

  • jaguarbass
    jaguarbass

    Hello Richard, my thoughts are it is unfortuanate if a child does not have two doting attentive parents.

    If the child doesnt he is foder for the wolves. The wactower are wolves in sheeps clothing in my book.

    When one tries to figure out the meaning and purpose of life, one of the simplest basic answers is to reproduce yourself. Then if you have any pride or self respect you mold that reproduction into something that is decent, fine and upstanding. The bible says the word of God is for widows and orphans, there you have it. If you dont have someone looking out for you, you are going to fall prey to the god spell+gospell.

    When you associate with some religions they zap your energy. They always have a engineered crisis or a tit in the wringer and their is never enough time for you.

    I had 2 parents but they were hardly ever looking out for my best interest. My father was not a witnoid, he was just a big kid always playing with his various toys and hobbies. My mother was a witnoid and I doubt it was to improve my life, but most likely to provide association for herself.

    Maybe some people are just plain stupid and then they become sheep. I got the message as a young child dont kill, or steal, back in Ohio in the 50's and 60's they had an electric chair. Religion did not stop me from killing or stealing, the consequences of the law did and maybe some luck. Religion robbed me of my energy to better my life.

    I knew when I was very young, I wanted a good life. I went down the wrong hole for a while with the wactower looking for it.

    If an individual doesnt have any structure or discipline in his life, in Florida he may end up in reform school, juvenile detention, and then the military. The military teaches many things plus they have a real not immagenary retirement plan and if you get killed between now and then you dont have to worry about it. Of course you could become maimed and disfigured but if you go in the military you are not smart enough to understand that to begin with, your sort of like a dog. When you grow some brains if it bothers you you can get out and you probably will have some structure and discipline to take with you.

    And if they mess your head up while they had you, they have free hospitalization and medication for the rest of your life so you can deal with it, verses the wactower where your on your own and have to end up killing yourself because no one is going to help you after they screw up your brain. And you find out that Jehober is as real as Santa Clause and the Tooth faery.

    You say you are grateful for the Watchtowers influence on your life. I dont know myself what I have to be greatful to them for. The public shools in Cleveland back in the 60's provided everything and more that the wactower offered. Reading, public speaking, sports etc with out any of the baggage. When my manners got out of line in public school I ended up in the principals office and he had a paddle with holes in it. He'd light my manners right back up. And I was a witnoid and still had manner problems, go figure.

    The only positive spin I might be able to give the witnoids is they were part of my life. Life is a wonderful precious thing, a journey. They were the terrifying ghoulish part of the trip. Still they let me know I was alive.

  • flipper
    flipper

    It is entirely possible to be taught discipline and general good behavior with no religion at all. imho better to be a good person because you want to than because you are afraid of retribution. I think the watchtower is way too dangerous and destructive - in no way can the good in that org cancel out the bad. mrs flipper

  • ex-nj-jw
    ex-nj-jw

    It is entirely possible to be taught discipline and general good behavior with no religion at all. imho better to be a good person because you want to than because you are afraid of retribution. I think the watchtower is way too dangerous and destructive - in no way can the good in that org cancel out the bad. mrs flipper

    This just about sums it up! Why do some believe that you have to have organized religion to be a decent, law abiding person with good morals? These are things that are taught from birth by parents, as far as education that also begins with parents, siblings, extended family and then public or private school. As far as I'm concerned, the Wactower provided absoulutly nothing but misery for the entire 18 years I had it rammed down my throat!

    nj

  • LisaRose
    LisaRose

    I feel I learned self-dicipline and some moral structure from the dubs. However in the long run it held me back in so many ways and limited my life and choices. Having left the organization, I am a much happier, more self-evolved person with many more interests, and I am no less moral and diciplined. Just saying the org provided dicipline doesn't really say all that much IMHO. The Natzi's were diciplined also.

  • looking_glass
    looking_glass

    There are many people out there that have been raised by a single parent, w/o religion and their child did not grow up to be a mass murder. Your example is flawed. As you are giving a simple example and life is not a math problem (2 + 2 always equals 4) ... there are too many variables to say this for that ...

    My simple answer to the illogical question is every person is different and every circumstance is different. In some cases, yes, I suppose the religion would be good for some, but in some cases the religion would not be good for others. Simple answer but again your question is illogical and/or flawed.

  • LearningToFly
    LearningToFly

    My experience as a child and youth involved with the religion was very much disciplined. The definition of this so called discipline can only be defined as "abuse". The scriptural teachings of spare the rod spoil the child was taken literally in many families as well as mine, condoning the beating of ones child for any reason saw fit by the parent or caretaker in charge. This behavior although not acceptable in normal society, was overlooked and deemed acceptable in many Jehovah's Witness homes. This I know from my own experience as well as others I grew up with within the organization. How may I ask is this discipline beneficial in instilling good values in a child? Fear does not produce a happy and healthy individual, it produces mindless individuals who obey out of fear. Mindless robots who do not learn to think for themselves or challenge this so called discipline, but simply follow because that is all they know. It has been many years since I left the organization as a youth, and have since then had the joy of bringing a lovely child into this world and instilling good values and morals into her without this "abusive" discipline that is condoned in the Jehovah's Witness organization. I did not need to use religion, nor fear, nor control to teach her how to be a good and worthy member of society. I used love, spent much time talking, and setting a good example of what a good person is to teach her these values. For my choice in raising her to think for herself, understand what is right and wrong from childbirth onward, without the use of total control, she is already at the age of 16 a strong and healthy young woman with strong values that are her own. She is able to think for herself,and is not a robotic zombie that she would have become if I had raised her the way I was raised with this so called "discipline" the Jehovah's Witness organization permits and condones within the family setting.

    I agree there are many unfortunate children in the world without proper guidance, but if they were to attend any community group, such as the scouts, or guides they would benefit much more from the kind teachings than from teachings and guidance instilled by fear. As children, my younger sister ran around the playground in her first grade telling the other children that they were going to die because they were bad and that god did not like them. For this she was beaten when arriving home, although it is what she was taught. How can anyone say that the watchtowers discipline is conducive to good parenting, if this is the message young children are taught and feel compelled to share with the world around them? I for one believe the method of teachings the Jehovah's Witness organization use are cruel and wrong. And over my dead body would I allow my daughter to even once look at "The Bible Story Book" given to her by a family member, as she would have had nightmares just looking at many of the pictures printed in the book. I feel there are much gentler and loving ways to raise a child than to expose them to this sort of abuse.
  • The wanderer
    The wanderer

    Thank you all for the comments some were
    lengthy and in depth, but no question in
    my mind that they were quite exceptional
    all in there own way.

    Overall feelings on the expressions?

    Some individuals saw some good points
    and others did not, but it was an eye
    opening thread from both sides of the
    matter.

    Thanks again,

    The Wanderer

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