JW Culture has Changed!

by Amazing 37 Replies latest jw friends

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  Makena1

  Interesting topic. Monitoring of Public talks, NO MORE "special talks at assembly halls", recordings instead of piano, all so different than just a few short years ago.

  Someone told me that the reason a certain congregation was having problems was because they were still using someone to play the piano instead of the Societies recordings. C-O-N-T-R-O-L.

  Off topic - Back in 1964 at a district assembly in Memphis, we had a Bro. Schnell who conducted the orchestra AND chorus. Anyone know if he is related to the author of 30 Years a WT Slave? If not, anyone know if he is still an active JW.

  No axe to grind - just curious.

  Makena
• 

  Amazing

  Hi Room215: Good points. I recall how the outlines were freer until a few years before I left. I recall when they started having Elders as the Kingodn Hall assigned to monitor the speaker. When we posted the Public Talk Schedule, it use to just show the topic, then we added the Outline Number so that the PO or other Elder could pull out his copy to monitor the speaker. Although at first, this was not strictly enforced, and Elders did not always follow the speaker too closely, it became more noticeable over time, and I recall after giving Public Talks that the PO or other Elder where I visited, would compliment me for sticking closely to the outline. Made me feel cheap.

  On another note, the Society used to love dynamic speakers. I recall how some DO's at the Oakland, California District Convention, A.C. Manera to name one, was a powerful speaker and we were encouraged to givce such life in our local congregation talks and parts. But then that too changed, and was forgotten, and soon the Society was using more bland and soft-spoken speakers. And when I was Talk Coordinator, the CO told me to use less exotic and dynamic speakers when making the schedule. And so I had to sit down with the other Elders and grade various Elders in the Circuit as to how good or bad a speaker they were ... that is, how soft and balnd, and then actually make a list of 'unapproved' speakers. Many Elders were never informed of this Society standard and often wondered why they were no longer given talks. - Amazing
• 

  RN

  I too read Schnell's book about 5 years ago. When my parents were studying in 1971/72 "Thirty Years" was THE apostate book everyone was warned about in loud whispers. So of course when I decided that I was done with the WTS, I added it to my reading list.

  Does Schnell whine? Yeah, he does. Would I recommend as a "you need to read this to figure stuff out and heal book" (like Ray's)? No. But I thought that the insights Schnell had on the org. during the Rutherford years in Europe were quite interesting. A viewpoint not really found in Ray's works or Jim Penton's.

  RN
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  Pork Chop

  This stuff about monitoring the public speaker is complete nonsenes. There are no such instruction and there is no such practice. As far as quoting from the outline, etc. there were specific instruction three or four years ago not to do that. I don't know where some of you get this stuff.
• 

  Tanalyst

  Yes I think from Ray Franz being kicked out in 1980, they really are stressed out over "thinking out loud".

  I recall bringing some Bethelites home for a weekend around 1976.One was a roomate of GB - William Jackson.My worldly uncle dropped by with a copy of the latest "Luthern " magazine - front cover of a happy family with the words,"We were Jehovah's Witnesses". We laughed about it and Bobby took it to show Bro. Jackson.Jackson declined to read the article my friend told me later, he wasn't interested in it, but it was no big deal. Since 1980 - and poor Bobby would be homeless.
• 

  larc

  Amazing,

  I think this trend towards more rules and confomity is real, and you docuement it very well. There is another trend that Englishman noted among the rank and file. That is, for more Witnesses to counteract this drive for conformity by quietly disobeying the rules behind the scenes with no compunction to tell on themselves. Englishman gave several good examples of this from his own observations. In my own situation, I have found that the JWs I know are more willing to bend the rules than they were in years past with respect to their social dealings with me and my wife.

  I see these two trends on a collision course. The organizational pressure to conform and the individual desire to fight against conformity and total control over their lives.
• 

  LittleToe

  Amazing:
  A friend of mine was on as a District Assembly Talk Coordinator. He expressed interest that they weren't looking so much for spiritual men, or good speakers, as "voice quality".
  None of the brothers, that he proposed, got on the Assembly that year.

  Pork Chop:
  I've seen Public Talk monitoring done before, too, although it is rare these days. It might have been a point made by C.O.'s.

  On an aside, this once worked out badly for one brother :)
  The brother in question had been under a great deal of mental stress, and blanked out about halfway through. He didn't know where in the outline he was, as he had given the talk so many times he barely used it anymore.
  After he waffled for a few minutes, his monitor brought the fresh outline up.
  The poor brother lifted an outline in each hand and said "Oh...now he's given me another outline...now I really don't know where I am!".
  Sadly the brother tried to continue, waffled for another 30 minutes, and got off.

  LT
• 

  Room 215

  Pork Chop,
  I will say that maybe they backed away from this monitoring business, but I can also assure you I saw it in practice during the mid-late eighties at the height of the post-Ray Franz ``apostasy'' era. Right there at the Queens (NY) Assembly Hall as I approached the stage, there was a Society hatchet man sitting just beyond view of the audience behnd he folds of the drapery, with a loose-leaf notebook full of talk outlines.
  But to say that current speakers don't quote verbatim from Society publications, in some cases as frquently as they quote from the Bible, or refer to what the outline says, is Mr.-Magoo-myopic. Where do you go to meetings?
• 

  worf

  Amazing,

  I appreciate your comments.

  Just to comment on the talk coordinating thing thats being mentioned:
  I was the talk coordinator in my cong from about 1992-1997.I remember getting instructions to monitor the speaker and make sure he stuck close to the outline. I just didn't do it. I thought it was ridiculous. I personally just wanted to hear good Bible-based info presented in an interesting way.When I myself gave public talks, I did not always stick to the ouitline.If I felt that it was boring, I did what I could to make it interesting.I remember talk # 94 was one of the special talks.I changed the whole outline from what the society had written. The cong.loved it. The rest of the elders didn't even know what was on the outline because they were too lazy to check it out.
  From the comments above its shows that this direction to monitor speakers was enforced in some places and in others it wasn't.Typical of the borg.More evidence that God never was, is not, and never will be behind the borg.
  worf
• 

  proplog2

  This is probably one of the most important subjects that could be discussed. What went wrong? I was raised a JW. My family always housed the circuit overseers when they visited and I used to enjoy the lively speculation. If someone were to promote the celebrating of Christmas or the Trinity they would have been flattened, but those issues never came up. Speculation about prophecy was wide spread.

  I believe the change started to take place with the institution of the Elder arrangement. At that point the concept of leadership was lost and the bureaucrats took over. When one person was responsible there was someone to blame. When the weight of decisions are shared by a body there is no room for creativity - mediocrity takes over.

  The Elder arrangement is contrary to the way people naturally organize themselves. It is even unscriptural.

  I remember having a conversation with Karl Klein about the Elder arrangement. That particular year he was presiding over the governing body. He was visiting a relative and I was invited to dinner. Before dinner he started a conversation "There are no more giants" he said. I asked what do you mean? He said "There was Russell, Rutheford, Knorr, but Jehovah was now working through a governing body. I asked him "Who killed the Giants?" He just smiled his usual grin and didn't comment. Next he said "Right now I have the most important job on earth (since he was presiding) - but it didn't feel like it." That was the year that they anounced at the assembly that rotation of the teaching positions would stop except for the presiding overseer. I asked Klein why they wouldn't also stop rotating the presiding overseer. He defended that by saying that no one should have that power permanently. I remarked that "abilitiy to direct" was a gift and that those with that ability ought to be in the business of directing. Again when anything controversial came up he would just grin. He obviously liked the rotation idea because it brought him to what he thought was the "most important job on earth". Klein was by temperament conceited and self-centered but also quite worldly in his knowledge.

  Anyhow, I feel the Elder arrangement was the biggest mistake the organization ever made. It instituted an unending supply of "yes-men".