Seeing Patterns That Aren't There?

by hmike 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • hmike
    hmike

    In his book, How We Believe, religious skeptic Michael Shermer states "In our complex and contingent world, random events often happen in seemingly peculiar sequences that cry out for meaning. We usually rise to the occasion, finding patterns in nature even when they do not exist or have no real significance...." A claim somewhat along this line was made in the TV show Numb3rs by mathematics professor Epps--that people look for, and think they find, patterns in random events.

    You can't watch a movie or TV show about crime without seeing detectives attempting to solve crimes by trying to find patterns in a collection of information. They work backwards from the end result to find links between the pieces of information and possibly back to a cause.

    Yes, we look for patterns. It's part of our survival instinct. With this ability, we can make sense of things that happen. It helps us understand our world, and--most importantly--make forecasts about events. It's a good thing. It can become a problem, though, when we see events as part of a pattern without enough evidence to justify a relationship. Thus, we may make false connections between events, or assume cause-effect relationships that may not actually exist. Some say this error is the origin of Christianity and all other religions. The thinking is that ancient people attributed to the work of God events which were really random, natural events that seemed to be related in some unknown way, and that they created God as the master orchestrater. The beliefs that formed have been perpetuated even to this day by what some call "subjective validation." It would go something like this: Say that I am in the midst of a crisis. I am told that God will help me if I pray (or make a sacrifice, or do a good deed, or whatever). I do that, and the crisis is alleviated, or at least I feel better about it. Thus, I conclude that God is real and helps those who meet whatever conditions are expected. Now, if I had not done anything, the crisis may have cleared up naturally, or maybe I did something that changed circumstances in a natural way, but there was no God involved. Then I spread the error by telling others that God helped me, encouraging others to take the same. All this gives our society whatever evils are attributed to religion, or at least causes people to be dependent and order their lives based on that which doesn't exist.

    OK, some may see patterns that others consider random events. But what about the other side of this coin--what about NOT seeing patterns that actually DO exist? Most of us have taken some kind of test where we've had to look at a field of numbers and pick out the ones that are part of a sequence. In some cases, we succeeded, but in some, we didn't. How successful we are depends to some extent on natural perceptual ability (such as that exhibited by John Nash played by Russell Crowe in the film "A Beautiful Mind"). The size of the field and the complexity of the relationships also affect our ability to find the numbers. In the case of a word jumble--a field of letters in which words are planted in vertical, horizontal, or diagonal lines--we are normally given the words we are to look for, which makes the task much easier. If we have some kind of key, or know what we are looking for, we are much more effective with these puzzles.

    So, even though we look for patterns, and while we may find patterns that don't really exist, we also don't always find ones that may actually be there. Moreover, we may find patterns that aren't supported by clear evidence, and the events may appear to others to be random, but actually, a relationship between the events may exist on some deeper level we can't perceive at the time.

    The skeptic may say, "The events you claim to be the work of God, and therefore used to support the existence of God, are actually random, natural events with no relationship to each other or back to any deity. You see patterns that don't exist." The Christian could say, "There is a pattern--you simply fail to see it." Considering how we are, either proposition could be true. Just because we don't see the pattern doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

    All this doesn't prove anything, and it's not my intention to prove anything. I want to point out that while the Christian's interpretation of personal experiences may be considered problematic, the argument that Christians always see patterns that don't exist has problems of its own. It seems to me that If we approach this without any presumptions, both sides carry equal weight. It's just another case of not having enough data to draw any firm conclusions, so we have to make decisions with the small amount of data we have--something we do all the time in many areas of life.

    Any thoughts?

  • Twitch
    Twitch

    Coincidences are peculiar things, fer sher. Harmless sometimes, potentially disastrous other times. It's all in the timing (no pun intended :-) And totally dependent on your situation, frame of mind and tendency to believe in some form of "higher power", IMO. Who can say for sure there is or isn't?

    co·in·ci·dence
    noun
    1. a striking occurrence of two or more events at one time apparently by mere chance: Our meeting in Venice was pure coincidence.
    2. the condition or fact of coinciding.
    3. an instance of this.


    I believe it's a perception thing. Separate discrete events that are similar will happen eventually. Discrete but dissimilar events will happen just as often. It may be said that both are happening simultaneously at all times everywhere. They existed before we did, otherwise we would not be here. Thus we exist and observe said events and naturally ascribe meaning to them. The perceived relationship between events that appears to show connection or "meaning" is dependent on the observer and what they see or perhaps looking to see at the time. For all the coincidences that stand out, how many times did things not coincide? Is there any less meaning in those? Is there meaning in all or any of it? The answer seems to be yes if you believe in a higher power, naturally. Mere chance otherwise. These things are happening all the time despite their "origin" and i believe it's our choice to decide which opportunities to grab hold of and which paths we should decline. Either way, you just doin' the best you can,....lol

    Let me consult the Magic Eight Ball,.....

  • Twitch
    Twitch

    (deleted by author)

  • 5go
    5go

    Have I seen a it ?

    Yes and I still laugh when I think that capitolists view him as a god for his theory on markets. I giggle every time I here some one brings up equalibrium and it's effects on markets. He was a nut when wrote his theory. His theory is misleading it relies on a perfect market to work correctly with out a perfect market it can not be used to predict jack.

  • Madame Quixote
    Madame Quixote
    It seems to me that If we approach this without any presumptions, both sides carry equal weight.

    Yes, but both sides will never carry equal weight if the the argument for such patterns (that prove or disprove one's beliefs) is approached scientifically, which does require making astute assumptions and predictions (presumptions) about how things will turn out, if the assumptions about why the supposed patterns occur are in fact valid. There have been, for instance studies done on the efficacy of prayer that found it ineffecacious for heart patients, and that found a direct correlation between increased patient deaths in those who knew they were being prayed for.

    It is important to understand the difference between scientific evidence and anecdotal evidence: science does make presumptions/assumptions and rigorously tests the assumptions; and if the assumptions are shown true by repeatedly tested evidence, the assumptions are treated as theoretical, scientific fact, until proven wrong by better tests.

    This is why germ theory is regarded as a fact - in the same way that evolutionary and other scientific theories are regarded as facts. Nothing more scientific has, nor is likely to disprove them.

    Anecdotal "evidence" does not operate in this way. It does not demand double blind studies of the hypotheses; nor does it subject itself to rigorous testing of any sort because This is The Way Of Faith and of anecdotal thought and of the false pattern-identification that is its hallmark.

    I suppose all arguments regarding pattern-identification would carry equal weight if not tested scientifically. This is why so many people seem to think that Astrology is scientific. They simply don't understand some very basic scientific principles and they see all arguments as having equal weight because of such flawed thinking.

  • hmike
    hmike

    Anecdotal evidence can be the basis of superstitions and old wives tales, but it can also be the basis of beneficial practices used by ancient people, and could become the basis of a scientific hypothesis. Without being able to test it, it is hard to evaluate.

    Thanks to those who responded, or may yet respond. This didn't generate as much interest as I thought it would. Personal observations and conclusions are important to what we believe--what God did or didn't do. Of course, it's all subjective and only has the weight we give it.

    I hope to bring up some other topics soon.

  • serotonin_wraith
    serotonin_wraith

    I was having a debate with a Christian about coincidences versus God's intervention recently, so I'll share a few points I made.

    Even if something completely unexpected happens more than once, even several times, it can still be down to coincidence. For example, if you roll a die and get a six, and roll the die again and get another six, and another, and another, you would be amazed. But there is still a 1 in 6 chance of rolling a 6 each time. Those odds don't change. You are just as likely to get a 6 as you are to get any other number. Another example would be winning the lottery. The odds against that are extremely high, yet people do win. In fact, some people win the lottery twice or more. Is God helping them, or is it just common sense to know that even if the odds of something very unusual happening are astronomical, there are still times unusual things will happen?

    Then there's self fulfilling prophecies, in which people focus on the things that back up their beliefs, while ignoring other things. It's like a favourite song on the TV- you may hear it 5 times in one day, and come to the conclusion that the music channels have 'answered your prayers'. But if you were to get hold of the complete listings to all the TV music channels, you may find that several other songs were played more. The reason you hadn't noticed this would be because you were only looking out for your song. If indeed it had been played the most, it would not have anything to do with you personally. It would only point to the fact it is a popular song, and it just happened to coincide with your favourite song too.

    Even if we somehow disprove other explanations, it does not mean God becomes the default answer. It may have been Krishna, or Mars, or Neptune. And while you may pray to the god of the Bible, another god may be the one who answers because people stopped talking to him or her long ago.

    So in conclusion, I think with the endless amount of possible outcomes, it makes sense that on occasion, things we perceive as unusual or amazing are bound to happen.

  • hmike
    hmike

    Thanks for the reply, serotonin_wraith.

    It seems that what we think of coincidence is changing, even without bringing God into the mix. The idea that everything in the universe is related, and that anything that happens has an effect beyond it's immediate environment and what is obvious, is gaining popularity. Additionally, globalization has shown us that we are no longer isolated--what happens in other parts of the world affects all of us in some way. So now some may question if there is really anything such as chance or coincidence. Why do things happen when they do? Why does a mechanical part or a part of the human body fail at a particular moment and not another? Why does the unexpected happen, and the expected not happen? We just don't know--we don't know all the principles or what the influences are.

    What you said to the Christian is one side of the picture--one possibility. But if the Christian maintains that an unexpected, improbable event is due to God's intervention, how can anyone really dispute it unless the preson presumes God doesn't exist or doesn't intervene. It may look like it could be a coincidence, but that doesn't mean for sure it is.

  • serotonin_wraith
    serotonin_wraith

    hmike:

    What you said to the Christian is one side of the picture--one possibility. But if the Christian maintains that an unexpected, improbable event is due to God's intervention, how can anyone really dispute it unless the preson presumes God doesn't exist or doesn't intervene. It may look like it could be a coincidence, but that doesn't mean for sure it is.

    You're right. It's the same as saying one cannot disprove God. Perhaps not, but we can make other claims about the origin of these 'coincidental' things that are on equal footing. If someone wants to claim God is behind these things, they must also accept that there is just as much proof for Santa being behind it, the Easter Bunny being behind it, an invisible pixie controlling our fate, etc. While those things may seem ridiculous, they shouldn't be ignored if we are to respect the idea that God is behind unexpected things.

  • Shawn10538
    Shawn10538

    The points that many of you are making can be summed up under the category of a logical fallacy called "After than therefore because of." So just because you pray for a red bicycle for Christmas and get it thereafter, does not mean that it was necessarily God that answered your prayer. We know that your parents went to the bike shop and paid money for your bike and brought it home. Did God induce your parents to buy it. Maybe. But this is where Okhams razor comes in. Basically it says that the simple obvious explanation is usually the correct one especially in light of the fact that there is no direct evidence of any other explanation. Your parents were aware of your desire for a bike and out of the good of their natural heart bought it for you. Or, they happen to know that young boys in general like bicycles, and without any prodding from you, they thought it would be a great gift. No God need exist to make this happen. No one to thank but your parents. End of story as far as Okhams razor is concerned. No need to take it any further than that. To do so would be dividing beyond necessity because we already explained perfectly well exactly why you got a bike without involving an invisible man.
    The examples above about anecdotal evidence commit the logical fallacy of "small sample." so, in this case, just because a drug seems to cure cancer in one patient, this does not mean that the drug really cures cancer, even in that one patient. Scientific experimentation needs to take place on a large scale to prove the results of the drug. It won't get approved by the FDA until solid proof from extensive research is done. A good example of this is healing via crystals. I put a crystal in my belly button and after that my ulcer went away. to find out if the crystal really cured the ulcer you must repeat the experience many, many times over and get the same result. A religious person would blindly excuse the results by saying that the person has to BELEIVE that the crystal can heal them before it will really work. This is backwards science, not science or truth at all, but an excuse for not believing an uncomfortable truth that you cannot admit to. BELIEF comes AFTER the proof, not BEFORE. Faith is a way to circumvent the laborious job of proof. Faith in essence is for LAZY PEOPLE who can neither muster the patience to conduct a forensic investigation nor can they deal with the results of solidly tested scientific facts.
    The person above, who said basically in the absence of a better theory and proof to the contrary a matter becomes regarded as scientific fact, is in error. Real scientists are very slow to use the expression, "scientific fact." Evolution is a theory based on what we know so far. This does not make it fact in its entirety as a a theory. Aspects of evolution, like the fact that we and things evolve, may be viewed as facts by themselves, but grand theories that explain the larger picture are rarely viewed as facts. In other words, putting all aspects of the grand theory in one box, and believing everything in that box is fact, is not a scientific position. It is ANTI-SCIENCE. IT IS A RELIGIOUS STANCE, typical of religious people who experience one amazing coincidence in their lives and then based on that coincidence they gulp down a whole religious system of beliefs lock stock and barrel. Like people are amazed at how nice JWs are, how they obey the supposed command to preach and how WWI started the same year they said would be the end of the world, so they become JWS based on those loose disparate "facts." They never do the hard research that would expose so many lies by the WTS. They impatiently gobble down the whole story from Adam to Revelation just because a few coincidences were not easily explained in some other way. you might call such a person gullible, lazy, hasty and ignorant as well as a person of great faith. So, faith and seeing patterns everywhere and attributing them to God is a logicall fallacious (untrue, false, PROVABLY AND DEMONSTRABLY FALSE) position to have.
    Another point is that alowing the possibility for God brand, Jehovah brand or Jesus brand you must also allow for EVERY POSSIBLE other brand out there, including ones you can make up on the spot, like: the Great Spaghetti Monster, purple people eaters, Martians, Grand Poo-bah Marshmellow God, Itsy Bitsy the Spider God, Pat O'Brian as God and on to infinity. As many as you can come up with, and as they come into existence and consciousness by your inventing them, they simultaneously become equal explanations to the God Brand explanations. So, you can not prove that Purple People Eaters do not exist, even if I tell you that I just made them up just now. For all I know they may have been in existence for all time and it was just a coincidence that I think I invented them just now, OR the fact that I thought of them really was a revelation from them, making me a sort of prophet. God was likely made up as well, by some caveman sitting around the fire at night trying to figure out what those bright lights were in the canopy of heaven. So, if it's a fifty/fifty chance that God either exists or does not exist, 50% goes to God's non existence, and the other 50% is divided between every other possible imaginable explanation out there. So, the Christian brand only recieves an infnitely small number percentage of that 50% because it must share in equal amounts with every other explanation that one might come up with. So again, the percentage of possibility that Christianity brand is the right explanation is infinitely small. Not very likely. Great Post, thank you for bringing it up.

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