by Derrick 23 Replies latest jw friends
Thank you both for the kind advice.
Let me ask you seriously, could anyone oppose a "friendly takeover" of the Watchtower corporations for the purpose of going in there, and transforming it into what it was truly supposed to represent in the first place?
I'm concerned about a pattern that is emerging where the Watchtower
promotes teachings from the Bible to the congregations, and then acts
in direct opposition to those teachings. The end-effect is first to
recruit millions who are willing to place the Watchtower above Christ in
importance.
Duh.
later,
tj
Derrick,
You said:
Let me ask you seriously, could anyone oppose a "friendly takeover" of the Watchtower corporations for the purpose of going in there, and transforming it into what it was truly supposed to represent in the first place?
If, as you surmise, the demons have taken control, how could this be accomplished? Will the demons simply allow humans to wrest control from them without causing them to compromise also? I beleive that what you're looking at is the fulfillment of Matthew 13:31, 32 which reads: "Another illustration he set before them, saying: 'The kingdom of the heavens is like a mustard grain, which a man took and planted in his field; which is, in fact, the tiniest of all the seeds, but when it has grown it is the largest of the vegetables and becomes a tree, so that the birds of heaven come and find lodging among its branches.'" The birds, of course, being the demons. Another appropriate illustsration is found at Luke 13:20, 21. It reads: "And again he said: 'With what shall I compare the kingdom of God? It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three large measures of flour until the whole mass was fermented.'" This organization was humming along fine until Ray Franz came up with the bright idea that the Bible supported a body of elders taking the lead rather than an individual, thus giving rise to this group of men taking control. The organization has been in a downhill slide ever since. The UN situation plainly shows that Jesus words at Matthew 24:15 are now appropo. He said: "Therefore when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation as spoken of through Daniel the prophet standng in a holy place, (let the reader use discernment,) then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains." (See also Danniel 11:31)
By allowing this 'foreigner to come into the temple,' (Ezekiel 44:6, 7) these leaders have committed the 'transgression that causes desolation.' Daniel 8:13 says regarding this: "And I got to hear a certain holy one speaking, and another holy one proceeded to say to the particular one speaking: 'How long will the vision be of the constant feature and of the transgression causing desolation, to make the holy place and the army things to trample on?'" Did you notice the expression 'to make the holy place and the army things to trample on?' What these men have done is going to cause this people to be trampled by the King of the North. (Daniel 11:40, 41) Jehovah will allow it, he has prophesied it will occur because of this grave sin. Jehovah has not authorized a 'friendly takeover.' The takeover by the KON will not be a friendly one.
The question then is: Who will take Jesus' admonition and flee to the mountains before this calamity occurs? The proof that the 'disgusting thing' is standing where it ought not to be has been given.
bjc
And TWMC will save the day if you just buy their "Report"(tm).
Hi Derrick
It seems noone has any objection to your post. Some of it, I agreed with, and some of it is clearly promoting the idea that the actions of the GB can be attributed to Satan.
I object to this because its convenient to blame Satan, when something is found to be corrupt. This serves no useful purpose, since it removes responsibility from those who are at fault ("satan influenced them to do it"). It also excuses people who want to explain why they were so "duped" by the WTBTS. Many are mislead by the WT, but why does it have to be Satan who orchestrates it?
Also, it sounds too much like a JW reasoning. Anyone considered a liar, or bad, is "under the influence of the Devil". Just like the apostates....?
There are too many fundementalist religions out there who all use similar language when referring to religious groups they dont like. Personally, I dont know if "God" and "Satan" are entities as described in the bible. It is speculated that the whole idea of "good" versus "evil" developed due to a need in humans to have someone to blame for pain /hurt / sorrow. Even if the bible is true, we should be cautious about the language we use when referring to other religious groups, even if we dont agree with them. I can say that the WT have lied, because I can show a proof of a lie they have told. I cant say that they are satan worshippers, because I have no proof. I know your post said "possibly" but lets face it, your whole post was giving so called evidence to support your theory.
The bottomline is that the Watchtower is bearing rotten fruits. The shocking epidemic of child molestation chronicled at Silent Lambs site http://www.silentlambs.org/ and decade-long association with an organization that is condemned in many Watchtower publications, is but two of many examples. Can anyone deny the logic of my suspicions that, possibly, the Watchtower's real intent is to set-up and then knock-down people it recruits?
I agree that they are producing some rotten fruits. Some are good, too. I can deny your logic, because there is absolutely no proof that they are intentionally trying to knock people down! They clearly dont have enough concern for anyone other than themselves, simple as that. There is no excuse for their actions.
At the end of the day, we just dont know what the governing body do behind closed doors. I dont seem to remember Ray Franz talking about satanic rituals though.
Sirona
The "Transgression that causes Desolation" Identified -- Daniel 8:12, 13
Here is a quote that explains the entire problem, the "transgression" the GB/WTS committed 10 years ago, by using the Sept. 8, 1991 Awake magazine...and subsequent issues since that time. This is the "transgression" that brings on Jehovah's wrath..."desolation," and the need for Jesus' stern warning to "use discernment" and promptly "flee [modern-day Jerusalem]..." ... aka, exit the WTS (aka, BTG)! -- Ezekiel 44:6,7; Jer. 23:19, 20; Mark 13:14; Rev. 18:2, 4
This insightful comment was made by "SeigsWife" on Sept. 30th, addressed to "Fred Hall" under the thread entitled "NGOS & DPI".
Please weight her words very, very carefully...
...The society is now allowing the Dept. of Public Information of the UN to DIRECT, in part, the content of their magazines. They have entered an AGREEMENT to USE their publications to promote the ideals of the UN. I thought that JEHOVAH was the one DIRECTING the content and ideals of these publications. If the UN, the wild beast, has now assumed this role, where does JEHOVAH fit in? Can JEHOVAH and the WILD BEAST fellowship in this way? Another point is that by agreeing to PROMOTE the UN and its philosophy, the WTS is now acting as a MOUTHPIECE FOR THE UN. Can they really be the mouthpiece for Jehovah AND the wild beast at the same time? Why do you think that a UN agnency is mentioned in some way in EVERY AWAKE magazine? It's because the WTS doesn't have the freedom NOT to mention them if they don't want to. It's because they have agreed to use these publications to do just that. Think, man, think. They are in the same classification with the UN as other churches in the world of false religion, BABYLON THE GREAT. How do you think that Babylon the Great actually RIDES the Wild Beast, if not as NGO's?
Her viewpoint is EXACTLY RIGHT...exactly the way Jehovah sees this entire problem.
Ezekiel 44:6,7 shows its a direct "act of rebellion" against God...ever since 1991.
It is "the transgression that CAUSES desolation." -- Daniel 8:12, 13
That means, brothers, just as Jesus said, its high time to "FLEE to the mountains..." Away from the WTS organization [Jerusalem]...lest we FEEL God's "wrath" upon us as it comes upon this wretched people and offensive spiritual "land." -- Jer. 30:23, 24; Matt. 24:15, 16; Luke 21:21-23
Remember: Its the use of these "publications" to uphold the UN, that's the problem...the publications that have previously, glorified and declared "His Great Name." Those who formerly, "boasted in His Name," even. And now, by relying upon the political nations for "security" and prosperity, they have effectively "renounced" this "Great Name" ...by saying, "we have no king but Caesar." Therefore, their "disgrace," is now complete. Now, God acts...He makes the "sun go down at highnoon" or "midday" for God's Name People...sudden spiritual "darkness" instantly upon JWs. A pathetic situation for those who were formerly privileged to "boast in His Name." -- Psalms 105:3; John 19:15
"And it must occur in that day is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, that I will make the SUN GO DOWN AT HIGH NOON, and I will cause darkness for the land ON A BRIGHT DAY." -- Amos 8:9
We are there, my friends...instant "darkness"..."on a bright day."
Jehovah has done this...to "Israel," His Name People. -- 2 Chron. 7:14
MDS
I wanted to comment more but must get back to the office. One thing stood out that I wanted to quickly comment about.
Sirona wrote:
> At the end of the day, we just dont know what the governing body do behind closed doors. I dont seem to remember Ray Franz talking about satanic rituals though.
I'm alleging the possibility that the ritualistic things in my post occurred AFTER 1980. I will reiterate that when I was baptized in the mid-1970's, I honestly believe the great apostasy that broke out in 1980 was still lurking in the shadows at Bethel. The alleged epidemic of homosexuality at Bethel throughout the 1970's should have been taken more seriously, in hindsight. Sigh, "hindsight is a wonderful thing" according to the old saying! I don't blame Ray Franz or other faithful ones for not recognizing the situation was rife for demon possession. Afterall, they are only men. Ray never professed to have divine inspiration directly from Jehovah God, did he? As such, mere mortal men could not see their brothers engaging in hidden Masonic or other types of rituals. They could not see the danger of allowing their founder's misjudgment on pyramidology, to attract demononic influences to their "sanctuary" by supporting his idolatrous grave site with its pyramid and other worldly artifacts. Arrogance in believing they were standing allowed them to fall down the slippery slope of one compromise after another, ending in the ultimate United Nations compromise. That is why I contend that like Jesus knew Judas would betray him, so he also knew his future anointed remnant of brothers would also betray him. There was never broth a faithful and a wicked slave in Jesus's parable. He was referring to one and the same. What is telling, is they claim they are that faithful slave Jesus spoke about. A "slave" is quite different from a "brother"! Their own words not only ensnared them, but ultimately proved prophetic! We are now witnessing the parable's pathetic ending when Jesus metes out their punishment. The question is, what comes next, after this parable?
Ianao,
Take it from me, you are the last person I would recommend the "Report" to. It has nothing in it that concerns you.
bjc
I suppose we will just have to agree to differ, because you are making too many presumptions for my taste.
That is why I contend that like Jesus knew Judas would betray him, so he also knew his future anointed remnant of brothers would also betray him.
You assume 1. they "were" anointed 2. He knew they would
So why did he anoint them if he knew they'd betray him? That doesnt make any sense.
This is all speculation.
Sirona
Hillary:
It is almost like a ‘rape’, an emotional rape, that looking back we could have prevented and it really pains us to realize this.
Some of us were born in, hence couldn't "have prevented it". The pain comes when we realise that we were abused and never knew anything differant when we grew into adults.
Derrick:
Judas wasn't anointed.
LT
