Its the Whole Premise that Gets Me

pettygrudger

#1 - Original Sin: Supposedly all this stuff is going on because Adam/Eve "ate the fruit" (type of fruit still under question). Because of this, God let billions & billions of people, "his children", suffer imperfection, pestilence, plague, wars,death, etc. etc. & let his "true followers" throughout bible history be persecuted because of this "original sin". Wouldn't we as humans in the 21st century love to be given that choice in this day & age - 6000 years removed from original "perfection"? How many of us wouldn't have let that sneaky snake disuade us w/out checking with God first?

#2 - The Whole Basis of Original Sin: Occurred because Satan (one of God's angels/first children) challenged the Father. Hmmm.....now, I believe myself to be reasonable & I have children. Even from the JW's own teachings - "spare the rod, spoil the child". Yet, Satan (Gods child) was able to challenge the very authority of God and instead of being instantly & permanently reprimanded, God allowed this "challenge" to be thrust upon humans for 6000 years? My son likes this argument because it does away w/corporal punishment! lol

JW's say this is because God wanted to prove to all his other heavenly children (angel) who the Father is, and to eventually (after ARM, 1000 years & another uprising of Satan) destroy Satan for eternity. This is where JW's say it ends, but I propose, does it? If this were all true, and Satan did rebel, what would keep some other angel for standing up after Satan's gone & making the same challenge? And, would a truly loving wonderful God let all of us here on earth suffer as much as we have because he wanted to prove a point?

The whole reasoning behinds this leads me to believe that if the God of any "religion" that believes in hell, eternal damnation,everlasting death etc. etc. is the "true" God, then I beg to differ that humans are nothing more than rats/insects to him, something to be studied, experimented on & then eventually done away with when the experiments are done & something more interesting develops. The only thing that obviously means anything to these Gods is their own soveriegnty & what the angels (first born childrens) think.

mindfield

Same thoughts here... after thinking about that for a while, my spirituality level has lowered to an unprecedented level! God is love, the Bible says...yeah, tell that to the kids who got mauled by the bears after insulting that prophet...dont remember his name. Tell that to the millions of people who died of different causes because of what a couple did, uncountable decades ago! Isn't it written somewhere in the bible that children and grandchildren wouldn't be punished for what their relatives did???

joelbear

Here's a question for you. Demons were at one time perfect angels. Do they have to suffer now that they are disobedient or are they just having a thousands years old party?

Also, why do angels automatically get to live forever in heaven with god while humans have to prove their worthiness by resisting tests, etc.

RunningMan

Here are a few more points to ponder:

1. Adam and Eve were commanded not to eat from the the tree of the
knowledge of good and bad. After eating from it, their "eyes were opened".
They realized they were naked, etc. So, if they did not know good from bad
prior to eating the fruit, how could they be held responsible for being bad?

2. Inherited imperfection caused by original sin is credited with our current
state of sickness and death. But animals also get sick and die, sometimes of
the same diseases that humans get. They had no original sin. It seems pretty
obvious that original sin has nothing to do with sickness and death.

3. Adam and Eve ate a piece of fruit. The seriousness of this infraction is comparable
to a parking ticket. Yet, it resulted in the death of somewhere around 24 Billion people.
What kind of sick sense of proportion is involved here?

Julie

Another point I think is interesting is that supposedly, if Adam and Eve hadn't eaten the fruit there would be no such thing as death. Can you imagine how many people have lived and died throughout the ages? Even harder to imagine is how many of us there would be if no one had ever died. There wouldn't be enough space for all of us, much less food and other resources. What an absurd idea.

Julie

joelbear

JWesque answers to your queries

Eating of the fruit symbolized the desire to live a life independent of God. That was original sin, not eating of the fruit itself.

Overpopulation would be solved by god: a) stopping procreation (not a popular idea among the young brothers when I was at Bethel, b) opening up other planets for man to fill (much more popular idea among the young brothers when I was at Bethel.

hugs

Joel

manicmama

My question, ever since I was very small, if Eve was a perfect human why did she eat from the tree at all? If she were perfect she would have known this was a falsehood. My mother never could answer her little 5 year old on that one and still can't.

Stealth

Good questions, here is mine...

If Adam and Eve would not have eaten the forbidden fruit, but would have ate from the tree of live in a relatively short period of time.

The whole issue of universal sovereignty would have been still untested and unanswered.

Just because Adam and Eve didn't sin would not necessarily indicate that one of their offspring would not have sinned. If this is the truth, we were doomed from the start because sooner or later someone would have challenged Gods authority.

Silverleaf

Great thread! I've always wondered, if God is omnipotent and omnicient, he obviously must have known that Adam and Eve would sin, but he created them anyway and set them in the very situation that would lead them to sin. If that's the case, then He created man purposely to punish man. If it's not true, then God is not omnicient - or omnipotent because knowing Adam and Eve would sin, why not create them in such a way that they HAD free will but yet had no desire to sin - being God, he should have beenb able to do that with no problem.

Silverleaf

joelbear

Doesn't the fact that 2/3 of the angels have remained faithful in itself prove the issue of Universal Sovereignty without the use of humans as pawns in some type of 6000 year torture test?

Its the Whole Premise that Gets Me

Share this