Beautifully explained Waiting.
HS
Persuasion: Did we forget what we learned as JWs?
by larc 45 Replies latest jw friends
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larc
Waiting,
I think your example of your busness versus the one across town was a perfect example of what we are talking about here. I remember another one of your posts where you wrote about your experiences in sales training programs. You knew almost everything they taught because of your Witness training. If you would, could relate that experience?
As you pointed out, where ever we learn something, that is a good thing. All of our experiences as JWs were not bad ones.
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larc
Further thoughts on persuasion.
Is it wrong to use techniques of persuasion when dealing with others? I think it depends on the intent. If we attempt to persuade others in a way that will harm them, then it is clearly wrong. However, if we use persuasion to help someone, then it is a good effort on our behalf. People do this routinely in their daily lives. Good teaching, good parenting, and good therapy are often a matter of good persuasive techniques. Is persuasion coercion? If punishment is used, pusuasion is thought of as coercion. If rewards are used, it is not. Whether rewards or punishment are used, may vary. A parent may tell a child that they will be grounded if they don't do their homework. They may also tell them that they will get a special gift if they raise their grade in math. One can be accused of either coericion (punishment) or offering bribes (rewards), but both are standard parenting techniques. I offer these thoughts because of Tina's objection to persuasion as somehow a bad activity. I don't see persuasion as bad, or as she put it, "highly unethical". In fact, I think that persuasion is highly ethical if used properly.
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Room 215
Hi all,
I think that one unfortunate legacy of the JW experience for many of us is that of antagonism towards those whose opinions and attitudes differ from ours. While it's instinctive to defend one's beliefs and to justify ones actions or attitudes, there's no call to lapse into animosity or vitriol in our exchanges.
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California Sunshine
Larc,
Well said..
Waiting,
I agree, Customer service is everything.
...Its not what you say, its HOW you say it
Does this mean I have to be nice to YouKnow now?
Darn....I'll try!
minds are like parachutes--they only function when open.
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larc
up top
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waiting
Howdy Larc,
I've not had much success posting to this thread - my persuasion tact must be "tacking" widely, eh? Screen keeps clearing. Could be me? Naaaaaaaa. One more try..............
The WTBTS is a master at word usage. One problem we have understanding them is that we don't break down their double talk. What they do is not necessarily persuasion - but a deviancy of it.
There used to be an old saying......want to spot a natural-born salesman? Check out a group of friends trying to decide what movie, restaurant, etc. they were going to spend their money on. See who's the most successful in changing people's opinions on where to spend their free time and money - and still keep friendships.
That's your salesman......and that's persuasion. The ability to get people to change thoughts, part with money or time, and still remain friendly. Some people are naturals, some learn it, and some just flop at it.
But all can be civil.
waiting
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larc
Tina,
I addressed some of your comments on my thread above. I would like to add a couple of additional comments. You stated that following the ideas I suggest would result in conformity. To some degree you are right. However, comformity to a successful approach is not a bad thing. For example, successful sales people use similiar approaches and techniques. This does not negate their own uniquenes and individualities as people. Also, I think you used the terms, good and bad, in a moralistic sense. I would prefer to think of approaches as either effective or ineffective.
Tina, I probably should have kicked the living shit out of you, just to prove that I am not favoring some member of an elite clique. Of course, I wouldn't do that, because it is not an effective way to communicate.
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waiting
Howdy,
Tale of the astounding ability of persuasion - for good and bad - on people (me & my husband.)
We have a 90 Mercedes Benz which is paid for - and I wanted to keep that damned thing until I died at 80 (or lost my mind at 70). Well, we service it regularily at Newsome Chevrolet in Florence, SC. We've bought 2 vehicles from them, and had an earlier Mercedes serviced there too. So, we've been customers for about 15 years. Same Sales Manager, Service Writer, mechanics all that time.
They have also been our customers (for our store products) for about 15 years. We've worked, eaten lunch/dinner, drank beers with them over that time.
Took it in to be serviced (idling [sp?] hard) at regular service time. Later, they called me to tell me that "when the mechanic drove it around, he heard a noise - took your car apart and you'll need $6,000 worth of repairs just to get her running again." Oh, a new mechanic, but the one we've dealt with (my husband was a line mechanic & knows the guy well) for 15 years was helping review the job, and he knows our car.
My husband calls the New Car Manager, to take a look. Randy checks, comes back "well, we could get her running rough for about $4,000, take her to the sale and dump her. I've got a year end model that I can give you an excellent deal on. Your credit's good with us - I'll just work up some papers for y'all to look at."
We look at new/used vehicles, paperwork, and our wreck which was running quite nicely before taking to dealership. And they were so nice! Every friggin' employee who did not know us, smiled and said hello. From the dirtiest mechanic to office clerk.
We thought, looked, and said we'd like to take the wreck back home - please put her together again. We drove her to our mechanic for our dumb ol' Ford trucks - and he's got my Mercedes Baby back in good shape for $800. Not cheap - but she is jam up.
What we think happened is that they flat suckered us. We trusted them (as much as you can trust car salesmen), knew them, respected their mechanical abilities. But there was an odditiy we'd never experienced before. We know what it's like to be "sold" - but never by a mechanic. Mechanics, if nothing else, are usually brutal & straight forward, perhaps polite/nice. But we've never been encouraged by a mechanic to not buy a year-end deal - but go for the 2002 Mercedes, and then have them break down all the beauties of the beast. Telling us "you'll always be broke, might as well drive a nice Mercedes." Not from a mechanic - almost always, they drive the worst wrecks - because they can keep them running indefinitely.
We think the Service Dept and/or mechanics were trying for a kick back from the Sales Dept. (they're all independent of each other usually). And we were the suckers.
It rather hurt our feelings, but we learned a lesson. Business is hurting right now, money's tight, lots of games in town.
There's a sucker born every minute. WC Fields
There's nothing wrong with persuasion - I'm a firm believer in it (even when I don't practice it). But used by persons with an agenda, whether money, power, etc., - it can cause all kinds of havoc.
Anyway.......peace.
waiting
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larc
Waiting,
I am sorry to hear about the attempt of these unethical people trying to rip you off.
I would go to the owner of the dealership and explain the whole thing to him. I doubt that he is aware of the double dealing going on with a regulare customer and an owner of a business that gives him a good product and service.
Before seeing him you might want to check with the mechanic that put your car back in working order. Perhaps, he might be able to figure out what was done to your car to so badly disable it. Just some thoughts from your old uncle Larc.
I think your situation points out the value of understanding the techniques of persuasion. A person can use them for good. They can also use the knowledge to protect themselves from the evil uses of those same techniques. Sorry, I took so long to respond, but it was just now that I thought of a viable suggestion that might solve your problem.