What if she hadn't eaten the fruit?

by michael downing 30 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • michael downing
    michael downing

    Based solely on whats available in the Genesis account, what would happen if Eve had not eaten the fruit but had continued a relationship with the "Serpent" in perpetuity questioning God's motives? Would she be punished for this exercise of Free Will?

    I ask the question because my personal belief is that if the Genesis account is in fact allegory, then what comes after it should be awarded no more acknowledged efficacy that what we prescribe to Aesop, Confucius or any other pragmatic, non-theistic value-set that has survived history . This applies to a lesser extent to the Gospels for me, since there is very little evidence that these should be taken as accurate as well. As much as I believe such doctrines as 1914, abstaining from blood etc. have been supplanted by reason, overall I care little about the debate because it seems to me that the basis for them is make believe anyway.

    Sometimes I get the impression that the Society/GB see's their strategy not unlike the Russians did during Napoleon's invasion.Continue to retreat until the time comes when the invasion can be neutralized by Armageddon, the Great Neutralizer, and Satan can eventually be weakened and deposed to his own personal Elba.

    I see holes in doctrine like everyone else does. However, even in the areas we are meant to take at face value without extrapolation and adjustment over time, there are huge flaws in the logic and these to me are just as important, if not more so, as those doctrines that have required 'the light to get brighter'.

    This forum is a godsend, for lack of a better word, to discuss these lapses of rationality.

  • Sad emo
    Sad emo
    Based solely on whats available in the Genesis account, what would happen if Eve had not eaten the fruit but had continued a relationship with the "Serpent" in perpetuity questioning God's motives? Would she be punished for this exercise of Free Will?

    No she wouldn't because she wasn't banned from speaking to the serpent.

    Not sure how it relates to your reasoning which follows though - my heads a bit foggy today!

    ps welcome to the board!

  • zack
    zack

    Things happened just as God knew they would. There was only one outcome. Kind of like the odds of winning the lottery are 100 million to one and God knows who the winner will be. Adam and Eve, if they existed, didn't stand a chance against a more powerful and more cunning intellect.

  • eclipse
    eclipse

    The fruit represented full knowledge of good and bad.

    ''Knowing bad'' was the catalyst for becoming imperfect.

    I guess God created ''Bad/evil'' too, otherwise there would be no fruit that contained ''bad/evil''.

    If Eve had never fallen to the temptation, her and adam would of stayed in ignorant bliss. They would of never realized they were naked.

    If they had children, they would of been ignorant as well....who knows what this ignorance would of precipitated.

    That's if I believed that the Bible was inspired of god, and god actually exists.

  • gaiagirl
    gaiagirl

    The Hebrew myth says evil entered the world through the actions of Eve. The Greek myth says evil entered the world through the actions of Pandora. Is there any believe one myth is more true than the other, or for that matter, that either myth is true? I see no such reason.

  • eclipse
    eclipse

    What is it about the feminine gender that the ancient man found so intimidating, that they had to blame all of humanity's evils on a woman?

  • michael downing
    michael downing

    So if Satans influence had continued with Eve unabated, and her behavior started to mimic what we know now as "sin" (perhaps murdering Adam or incest with her children, dramatic I know) it stands to reason that her immortality would have remained intact, because she did not "know" what badness was.

    I tend to agree with Zack, in this paradigm there was only one outcome, already set. Goodness is an concept that cannot be defined nor maintained in the Edenic sense because the supplier of both Goodness and Evil is the same entity.

    It seems like the biblical God loves Satan more than mankind.

  • White Dove
    White Dove

    The questions that perplex me are: What are the odds of me being born into the "one true religion" and what are the odds that the very first man and womyn that are created sin (they were perfect, so how could they sin? Satan rebelled but is still perfect???) and cause the destruction of 100% of the rest of us? I am a pagan in the making but very slowly.

  • michael downing
    michael downing

    I wonder those things myself. Omnipotence and Omniscience also perplex me. He can't stop Satan? He didn't know it would happen?

    The more I think about it I cannot shake the the belief that, no matter how you slice it, God chooses to let people suffer or is the persecutor himself. I prefer not believing at all. Who would worship someone so callous?

    If you read Genesis from a literary perspective, the whole story seems so ridiculously slapped together. I remember years ago listeining to Bill Moyers "Genesis", a panel discussion of a group of philosophers and theologists from the Big 3 religions. There was a concensus there that the Old Testament God was "learning" or immature. After that, Genesis read like God's high school Creative Writing assignment to me.

    The flood story makes me feel like mankind is in an abusive relationship. God gets jealous, destroys the house, slaps his wife and kids, and then calms down, realizes what he's done and goes the "I promise I'll never do that again" route, buying flowers (rainbow) and everything.

  • BEROEAN
    BEROEAN

    You must remember the Genesis account, as well as other accounts in the Bible, give the essentials. They do not contain every bit of information to give a precise description of what occurred.

    Jehovah has given all of His intelligent creation (mankind and spirit beings) free will. Choice. Jehovah created a spirit creature that later turned rebellious (Satan). Jehovah did not create "evil" per se. However, by definition, evil can also mean "ruinous, calamitious, ect.". That is why Jehovah told Noah He would never call down "evil" upon the ground on account of mankind again (Gen. 8:21).

    Perhaps, before Adam and Eve were created, the selfish desires of Satan had already taken root (Ezekiel 28:11-18). Satan's slanderous lies and murderous spirit when speaking with Eve would have been the outward manifestation of this. Adam and Eve were full aware of the consequences for disobeying Jehovah.

    What if Eve continued on in a conversation with Satan? That hardly would have occurred because Satan had an objective. Most likely he would have moved on to one of her children. Afterall, why did Satan leave Jesus after merely three temptations? Frustrated? Tired? He wanted to watch The Sopranos?

    Satan knows who he'll make headway with and who he's wasting his time with. Afterall, he's studied us for thousands of years.

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