The Hebrew Text Of The OT -OR- The Septuagint; Which Does GOD Prefer?

by FireNBandits 29 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • FireNBandits
    FireNBandits

    The NT writers, when they quote the OT, mainly do so from the LXX, the Septuagint. A majority of the OT quotations in the NT are in fact from the Septuagint, only a minority from Hebrew. When the NT writers do use a Hebrew text it generally isn’t the Masoretic text, but another form of the Hebrew text. The LXX was the “Bible” used by Christ and the Apostles, as well as the early Church, and this includes the so-called deuterocanonicals, or “second canon” which evangelicals and fundamentalists disparage as “apocrypha.” (My response to these people is, “If it was good enough fer Jesus well then by-cracky it’s good enough fer me!”) It was the Christian reliance on the LXX that led the Jewish people to repudiate the LXX and rely on Hebrew texts. The Christian Church had such success in evangelizing Jews using such books as The Wisdom of Solomon that the Jewish people repudiated the “second canon” and closed their canon, accepting only the thirty nine books that protestants use today.

    In other words, protestants, evangelicals, and fundamentalists are not following Christ and the Apostles, but the Jews, in their selection of OT text. For the sake of argument, let’s say that the NT is in fact inspired by God in the manner and extent that evangelicals and fundamentalists insist that it is. Why, then, do these groups insist on using the Masoretic text (for the most part) in clear opposition to Jesus Christ, the Apostles, the other NT authors, and the early Christian Church? (The Roman Catholic Church eventually embraced the Latin Vulgate, but the Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church continued using the LXX just as Jesus and the apostles did, right up to the present day.) If you believe the NT is inspired by God and is “inerrant and infallible in the original languages and manuscripts” then by golly that means that Jesus, the Apostles, and the other NT writers WERE INSPIRED BY GOD--INERRANTLY AND INFALLIBLY--IN PREFERRING THE LXX OVER THE HEBREW TEXT!

    Why aren’t you following suit? Do you know better than God? Better than Jesus, the Apostles, and the NT writers? If you’re interested, you can download the Apostolic Bible for free. It’s to be found here (Thank you for the link Leolaia):

    http://septuagint-interlinear-greek-bible.com/

    One of the interesting features of the LXX is that it's noticeably more “Messianic” than the Masoretic text. By that I mean the LXX is worded in such a way that more of the OT can be taken in a Messianic way than can the Hebrew text. This is one of the reasons (not the ONLY reason) why the early Christians much preferred it to the Hebrew text, and apparently God Himself concurred as He inspired the NT writers and Jesus Himself to rely mainly on the LXX!

    A well known example of the LXX being more “Messianic” than the Masoretic text is the use of the Greek word “parthenos” (virgin) rather than the Hebrew word “almah” (maiden or young woman) when quoting Isaiah, “Behold, a virgin shall conceive…” etc. The NT writer quoted th LXX, not the Hebrew text.

    Another example is the LXX of Psalm 2:11-12: “Kiss the Son lest he be angry and ye perish in the way.” The Masoretic Hebrew text merely says: “Do obeisance to purity lest He be angry and you perish.”

    These are just two examples. I’m sure Leo and Narkissos can give more, as well as take this topic into the stratosphere.

    However, one of the principles of Textual Criticism is that one takes as authentic the reading that best explains the genesis of the variant readings. So, to determine which reading is authentic, we must ask ourselves, Does it make more sense that Psalm 2:11-12 originally read “Kiss the Son” in Hebrew, but because of the Christian church the Jews altered it to “Do obeisance to purity” OR does it make more sense that it originally read “Do obeisance to purity” and the Jews altered it to “Kiss the Son” when they made the LXX? The second scenario does not make much sense at all, whereas the first scenario makes a lot of sense. So, I propose that the LXX better reflects the earliest Hebrew text in this instance. The Masoretic Hebrew text does not. Plus, God Himself concurs with me! I have proof because the Holy Spirit inspired the use of the LXX over and above the Hebrew text!
    So, I leave the argument there, but encourage all of you born-againers to familiarize yourself with the LXX, the Bible of Jesus, the Apostles, the other NT writers, and the early Christian Church. (In fact, as I said, the LXX has always been the OT of the Christian East.)

    As to the deuterocaonicals, they were universally accepted in the Christian Church, east and west, until Martin Luther (and other "reformers") decided these books needed to be excised from the Bible. Luther alos excised the book of James, which he labeled “an epistle of straw.” Why aren’t you fundamentalists and evangelicals following the early Church as to the deuterocanonicals but are instead following Martin Luther? (BTW Luther was also a rabid anti-Semite and his ravings served as one of the inspirations of Adolph Hitler, who quoted Luther quite often as justification for his treatment of the Jews.)

    If one objects to the deuterocanonicals because they aren’t quoted in the NT, well, neither are Esther, Ecclesiastes or the Song of Solomon. Does that make those books uninspired? If not, then neither does it make the deuterocanonicals uninspired. Ya'll cain't have yer cake and eat it too!

    Neener neener neener. -Saint Martin of the Motor City.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Hi Martin,

    The Protestant stance often leads, in effect, to a strange belief in fragmentary inspiration of the source texts, through the retroactivity of NT inspiration: neither the LXX nor the extra-canonical works (such as 1 Enoch quoted in Jude) are regarded as "inspired," but the sentences that happen to be quoted in the NT, somehow, are.

    As to Psalm 2 I would hardly say that the LXX preserves an original reading: draxasthe paideias (catch = embrace discipline) is best understood as an attempt at interpreting a (corrupt) Hebrew Vorlage identical or very similar to the MT ("kiss the son," mixing Hebrew and Aramaic, or "kiss purity" being only alternative attempts -- certainly not the plain meaning of the MT). In that case the "original" appears to have been simply lost, very early, and can be only conjectured (e.g. "with trembling kiss his feet").

  • FireNBandits
    FireNBandits

    Hi Narkissos

    "Kiss the Son" is a very strange conjectural emendation no matter what the original reading was. My main point, though, is the overall (not total) rejection of the LXX by todays Christians, starting with the reformers. Clearly the NT writers preferred the LXX to the Hebrew text, and preferred other Hebrew texts to the Masoretic. The kicker, which I didn't include, is the way the NT writers slightly alter the OT texts they're quoting (whether from the LXX or the Hebrew text) so the texts better suit their purposes. If one is going to believe these men were inerrantly and infallibly inspired, that has some important implications for the doctrine of inspiration. Regardless, fundies only tackle issues of little consequence, such as whether or not God wants you to paint your toenails or whatever.

    The Hebrew reading of Psalm 2 that I gave is from from a Jewish rabbi's web-site. So I assumed it was accurate.

    Parts of the Bible are to me inspired but only in the way that Brahms or Bach were inspired. The human mind touching it's divine core. Epinoia.

    Martin

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    THE book to read and study is: "Biblical Exegesis in the Apostolic Period", Richard Longenecker, Eerdmans.

    You will be fascinated.

    Doug

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    The real departure from the LXX tradition in the Western church was Jerome's Vulgate, based (in principle) on his "hebraica veritas" axiom. What the Reformers did over one millenium later is using Jerome's axiom against Jerome's work, with the new philological tools which Renaissance's humanism had made available.

    One should remember, though, that even in the West the theoretically Hebrew-based Vulgate was not easily accepted, even by the Catholic hierarchy, over the LXX-based old latin versions. Actually Jerome's Psalms never really made it into the liturgy.

    What is at stake, I think, is a different kind of relationship of Christian faith to "scripture". By referring to the Greek LXX and a sort of "open canon" (oxymoron intended), the earlier church only claimed a right to believe what they did, besides Pharisaic-rabbinical Judaism for instance. By insisting on hebraica veritas and the Jewish canon (which was also Jerome's trend long before the Reformers), the church shifted to an exclusive notion of their creed as the (only) truth, denying anyone (including the Jews) the moral (if not legal) right to believe otherwise. Nothing short of an exclusive truth really suited the status of an imperial religion.

  • Forscher
    Forscher

    Greetings,

    I am curious on your thoughts Nakissos. But if we can assume Greek primacy for the authorship of the NT, then wouldn't it be likely that the preference shown for the LXX by the writers of the NT more likely be due to it being the only translation of the OT into Greek at the time and was likely more available to Greek speakers throughout the Diaspora? I am just curious for your thoughts on that possibility.

    Forscher

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Hi Forscher

    But if we can assume Greek primacy for the authorship of the NT, then wouldn't it be likely that the preference shown for the LXX by the writers of the NT more likely be due to it being the only translation of the OT into Greek at the time and was likely more available to Greek speakers throughout the Diaspora? I am just curious for your thoughts on that possibility.

    Why, of course. The vast majority of the earliest "Christians" did not choose the LXX against another. It was simply (in slightly anachronistic terms) the only "Bible" of the only "Judaism" they knew (more from hearing than from reading btw). This only became an issue after 70 AD, when Judaism was "re-formed" around the Pharisaic school and the Hebrew, Palestinian, pre-Masoretic text became normative within Judaism.

    The symmetrically emerging "Christian" faith could not dispense at once with the text it was (for historical and linguistic reasons indeed) "based on". That this was no longer a mere linguistic issue at this stage is apparent, for instance, from the fact that the standard Christian Syriac (Aramaic) version (Peshitta') is obviously dependent on the Greek LXX, not the Hebrew pre-Masoretic text, in spite of the close linguistic connections between Aramaic and Hebrew.

  • Leolaia
  • Country Girl
    Country Girl

    Didn't Christ clear that up already? He said that there's only two laws. Any other interpretation is a waste of time, and a waste of BAND SPACE.

    CG

  • Terry
    Terry

    I think we need to take a step back.

    You cannot have Greek words without Greek thoughts, ideas, concepts and, ultimately, Greek RELIGIOUS VIEWS.

    As the Rabbi down the street said to me one day, "All translations are LIES."

    The Septuagint came along at a time when Greek ideas swarmed over Judaism and bowled it on its collective arse.

    This had happened once before when Judiasm was swallowed up by Babylon and spit back out again with a garbled theology.

    By the time Alexander the Great had conquered all the known world the Jewish religion had been masticated and sewn back together bionically.

    Greek language, ideas, religion and PHILOSOPHY overwhelmed what was left.

    The NT is steeped in a Judaism possessed by the demon of Greco-Roman philosophy, religion and reasoning.

    You don't just translate the Hebrew words into Greek words. You filter old-fashioned (read: failed) ideas into a vibrant and superior mode of thinking.

    Jesus would not have been viewed as a god-man without the Greek ethos.

    Go back and take a good hard look at Jesus' conversations with the Pharisees.

    If you cannot see SOCRATES, then, you are missing the whole point.

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