Pledge of Allegiance

Celia

Poor JW kids all aver America :

To: Vermont School Board Members
From: Edie Miller
Re: Message from the US Secty of Education

I want you to be aware of this message that I just received

>PAIGE URGES AMERICA'S MORE THAN 100,000 SCHOOLS TO JOIN IN SIMULTANEOUS
>NATIONWIDE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE ON FRIDAY
>
>Education Secretary encourages schools and communities to participate in a
>Pledge Across America
>
>U.S. Secretary of Education Rod Paige has contacted more than 100,000 public
>and private elementary and secondary school principals around the country to
>encourage them to have America's almost 52 million students participate in
>Pledge Across America * a nationwide, synchronized Pledge of Allegiance on
>October 12, 2001.
>
>"Teachers in every community in America have been working with students to
>help them understand what happened on September 11 and to overcome their
>fears and concerns," Paige wrote to the principals. "They have also worked
>to teach them more about our proud and rich national history and the
>foundations of our free society.
>
> "Today, I ask students, teachers, parents and other proud Americans
>across the country to join me in showing our patriotism by reciting the
>Pledge of Allegiance at a single time and with a unified voice this Friday,"
>Paige said. "Together, we can send a loud and powerful message that will be
>heard around the world: America is 'one nation, under God, indivisible,
>with liberty and justice for all.'"
>
> The synchronized Pledge of Allegiance will begin at 2 p.m. EDT, 1
>p.m. CDT, Noon, MDT, 11 a.m. PDT, 10 a.m. in Alaska, and 8 a.m. in Hawaii.
>Paige will be participating in the Pledge Across America with students from
>a Washington, D.C., area school and details of his visit will be available
>later in the week.

Pathofthorns

Sounds like the war propaganda machine is working overtime. Maybe the children should be left out of it.

Path

Seeker

When children in China recite things by rote in mass numbers, we call it propaganda.
When children in America recite things by rote in mass numbers, we call it patriotism.

All a matter of who you ask, I guess.

Princess

How many jw kids are pleading with their parents to stay home on Friday???

No school here on Friday, too bad. I'm sure the true patriots will say it anyway.

Princess

belbab

The WT leaders take refuge and hide themselves for a short while in their interior rooms when adversity threatens.

They run from the NGO/UN crisis.

Let's hope they do not let the JW children take the brunt of the heat of patriotic fervor on Friday.

JW parents spare your children, do not burn them in fire, God does not need their sacrifice. Keep them home, or make sure of safe arrangements for them.

belbab

drahcir yarrum

seeker:

I have never read that "when children in China recite things by rote in mass numbers, we call it propaganda". Actually, teaching children to repeat things as a group, like songs, poems, anthems, etc. has been used for a very long time. It's very effective. Not sinister at all. You appear to be confusing method with content.

Chanting things like "death to America" by Palestinian kids is sinister. But the Pledge of Allegience isn't evil or harmful. Only in the minds of a JW kook would that be the case. And I'm not saying you are a JW kook. I agree with you on most of the things you post. But I often get the impression that you still harbor cynisism towards the U.S. goverment. I don't know if it's residual from your days as a JW or if it's just a healthy mistrust of government. I mistrust bureacracies and politicians, but I love this country. When I reflect on what this country is, stands for, does for it's own people and others around the world, it makes me feel proud. When I think about the young men who for almost 300 years have paid the ultimate price for what we enjoy today, it makes me proud.

Is this country all good with no flaws? No, because I'm not all good with no flaws and you're not all good with no flaws. We are this country. It's our way of life that is threatened by these cowardly terrorists like bin Laden and his ilk.

I just wanted to point out the difference between the act of group recitation and the content of group recitation.

Seeker

have never read that "when children in China recite things by rote in mass numbers, we call it propaganda". Actually, teaching children to repeat things as a group, like songs, poems, anthems, etc. has been used for a very long time. It's very effective. Not sinister at all. You appear to be confusing method with content.

I should have been clear. I meant when they chant government slogans in a place such as China. We call that communist propaganda. I was pointing out that when you ask every child in America to recite a government slogan at the same time, it is close enough to make a valid comparison in my opinion.

I agree with you on most of the things you post. But I often get the impression that you still harbor cynisism towards the U.S. goverment. I don't know if it's residual from your days as a JW or if it's just a healthy mistrust of government. I mistrust bureacracies and politicians, but I love this country. When I reflect on what this country is, stands for, does for it's own people and others around the world, it makes me feel proud. When I think about the young men who for almost 300 years have paid the ultimate price for what we enjoy today, it makes me proud.

Then we agree, really, for that is my view too. My cynicism toward the U.S. government was developed after I left the WTS, actually. It came as I educated myself on history and current events, subjects I neglected as a JW. What I found is that the maxim that all organizations eventually become corrupted (so obvious in the history of the WTS) is fairly true, and it includes the U.S. government (as well as every other government on earth).

So I distrust the politicians, but I appreciate the common person, and I love my country. Love it enough to be willing to criticize it when I feel it deserves it, and not just parrot empty ideas such as 'my country right or wrong.' I know you don't do that, so please understand that you and I probably are much closer on this issue than you may think.

I have to say, this thread made me rethink my views on the Pledge of Allegiance. To my surprise, although I love my country, and am loyal to my country, I cannot actually subscribe to all of the ideas in the Pledge. I do not, for instance, think God has anything to do with this or any other country, so how could I honestly say, "One nation under God"? Nor do I truly believe there is "liberty and justice for all." I would feel very uncomfortable about being asked to make that Pledge now, much to my surprise after thinking it through, even though I am proud to be American.

I guess I prefer spontaneous expressions of patriotism from the heart over coerced expressions of rote ideas. Any JW in school on Friday is going to feel that coersion explicitly or implicity by the groupthink that seems to have swept the nation recently. If they are hassled over this, I will feel badly for them, and disagree with the harassment, for this is a free country with the freedom to express your thoughts any way you want.

drahcir yarrum

seeker:

Cool!

Drahcir bin Yarrum

karen7680

I am a teacher in an elementary school and I haven't heard anything about this. Sometimes, they spring things on us in the early morn (they did this when we were to observe a minute of silence as a nation), but somehow I doubt it. I guess I will see tomorrow.

Incidentally, we had a staff meeting following school today. They gave us a new set of emergency procedures in case of a terrorist threat or attack. Realistically, our principal said that if something were to happen, it would occur at some other public or government building, but as he pointed out, terrorists in Isreal have been known to target children, such as on school buses and such.

Their primary concern, if there is to be another terrorist attack, is the mass hysteria that would ensue and cause all our parents to come check out their children. 500 parents coming to check their children at once is a problem. So the plan is for the building to go into lockdown mode, with a station set up in the gym for parents to check out their kids (all id's have to checked) and the kids released while in lockdown mode. This prevents a mass number of parents flooding the building and roaming around.

Actually, the process of this emergency plan is rather complicated ... getting all the kids back to their classrooms and to rapidly set up their system in the gym, etc. We asked if we would be practicing this procedure (as we do fire drills,tornado drills, etc.) We are no because, as our principal said, it would put the kids in a high state of alarm.

As for this synchronized Pledge of Allegiance, I agree with Pathofthorns ... the children should stay out of it.

"Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself."
-Harvey Fierstein

tdogg

I went to my daughters kindergarten orientation thingy. They had everyone stand up and say the pledge and I didnt say it. It felt very strange to be in that situation again. I dont like the pledge of alegiance and if my girl decided she didnt want to say it, I would support that to the end. I have not told her she shouldn't say it but I am sure it will come up some day.
I suppose since I was raised a JW, I was not indoctrinated the same as most in this country. I find the the idea of pledging my allegiance to a flag somewhat silly. I love my country and I revere those who were willing to fight for it but that does not compell me to say a chant. I wish they would stop doing this ritual in public places.

Pledge of Allegiance

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