Two witnesses just left my door!!!

by TheCoolerKing 23 Replies latest jw friends

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  TheCoolerKing

  I think the way they found an out is by saying you believed in the Trinity now and you had to defend it. I think turning it the other way to have to defend something they really can't defend would be better in making them squirm for instance?

  Thanks for the thoughts Tuesday, that's exactly what I was trying to do, make them squirm! That's why I was careful with my question. I never said that I believed in the Trinity, but instead I kept asking them, "What does the Bible say?" I keep several versions of the Bible (KJV, American Standard, Revised Standard) around, for an emergency like this one! Since they couldn't answer my question, they left.

  hmmm, I was wondering if they may be back to my house again, this time with an elder???!!!
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  Tuesday

  You know I might pay to see that confrontation with the elder LOL

  We're on the same page, have fun. There's one thing you have that they won't, the ability to not take their beliefs too seriously.
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  TheCoolerKing

  There's one thing you have that they won't, the ability to not take their beliefs too seriously.

  Amen brother!!!
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  johnny cip

  First off the trinity is a bad topic . right or wrong. allways keep you jw's on topic, on questions they can't answer. and keep TO YOUR TOPIC even if you have to be RUDE. And drag them through the mud . on how UNQUALFIDED they are to good door to door. and not know what they are3 talking about.
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  tijkmo

  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

  with or without the 'a' ...every version of john 1;1 says the word was 'with' god

  you cant be with someone and be that person

  you can however be 'a' god and not be 'the' god...in which case you can be 'with' whoever you damn well please.

  jw answer.

  tijkmo of the devils advocate class
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  Mad

  Well at least you were honest - even if they didn't know enough to deal with your question!

  Just in case you WANT to know what John 1:1 means, consider-

  The REST of what the book of John says explains what the reference REALLY meant- here are just SOME examples:

  1:18-No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

  (Many thousands saw Christ. "Only-Begotten son" was a human term God chose to help us understand Christ; a father has only One Son- who IS NOT THE FATHER!)

  3:16-For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

  ( The clergy 'rewrite' it to say "God so loved the world that He Himself came Himself and died for man's sins")

  5:22-For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

  23-That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father
  which hath sent him.
  24-Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into
  condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
  
  (Notice that Christ HIMSELF says believing in His Father, as well, means life!) Who do YOU think his Father is???

  36-But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear
  witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

  37-And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. (Wait! Wasn't JESUS God?)

  38-And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

  39-Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

  40-And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

  41-I receive not honour from men.

  42-But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.

  43-I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another
  shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

  44-How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

  Are you familiar with the Hebrew word transalated as "God" (Elohim)? Think about how it's translated when Jehovah says MOSES is God!-

  Exodus 7:1- Jehovah said to Moses, See, I have made thee God to Pharaoh; and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. (Darby)

  Exodus 7: 1- A nd the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. (KJV)

  ( Notice an "a" is added by one translator, and then DOESN'T capitalize the "G"- as they do everywhere else?)

  Was the Trinity really a Quinity, with Moses being the 4th God-Person????? (Following the 'logic' of the clergy - it woulkd be 'TRUE'!)

  The simple TRUTH? Moses and Christ were God to mankind, simply because God spoke thru them- they represented God.

  Make sense? Or are you off to some other references before thinking about these?

  Agape,

  the Mad JW
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  Inquisitor

  Hi CoolerKing,

  You asked those two an excellent question.

  But...

  Wouldn't you agree that Paul's mention of "one God, one faith" (Ephesians) is an example of what unites Christian faith. It is not meant to imply that in his worldview there is only one god/deity. For it is this same Paul who wrote that there is a "god of the age/system of things" who causes spiritual blindness (2 Corinthians 4:4).

  If JWs are polytheistic for calling Jesus a lesser god, how do you interpret the nature of Satan's godship in 2 Corinthians 4:4?

  INQ

  p.s. this is what INQ would have said if he had knocked on your door > 3 years ago, except he wouldn't have been able to use that word "worldview" LOL
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  AK - Jeff

  Back to the original quote Mad!

  John 1:1 - If all the quotes you use to support the non-trinitarian version of God are sufficient to do so, why on earth did Freddy see a need to mistranslate John 1:1? Not a single reputable, non-biased scholar accepts the NWT rendering.

  The KIT had to actually use Johhannes Greber's translation as support of their's, in spite of knowing that Greber was an occultist. Actually everyone knew he was, since he openly admitted such. It took them over 25 years to finally drop references to that translation in support of John 1:1.

  Don't kid yourself. The support for the trinity is overwhelming in the NT. The ante-nicean fathers were in agreement for centuries on the topic. The word Trinity was used to explain what they already knew, that the God-son Jesus expected, and accepted worship, never claimed to be a created being [like Michael the archangel], and explained that they should request that He himself would send the HS and that He himself would grant answers to prayer.

  Further, in the Revelation, given by Jesus to John, Jesus refers to both Himself and the Father as the 'Alpha and Omega'. There has never been argument among trinitarian believers that Jesus' substance on earth was of a differing nature than that of the Father in heaven. His statements reflect those differences. No one had seen God the Father. But of course many have seen God the Son.

  Jesus is far more than a doorkeeper to our prayers and a touchtone to an organization or institution on this earth [as He is used by the WTS]. Unfortunately, this summer's conventions will once again parade Jesus about, then put him in the closet till Christmas time and another chance to sell 'Greatest Man' books. In between, it is the GB that Jw's are expected to honor and worship.

  Trinity or no Trinity. Perhaps not all that important. But the WTS taking idolatrous worship to itself - now that's a sin with a number. [Hint - Revelation 13:18]

  No offense to you brother Mad - you know I love ya'.

  Jeff
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  Mad

  Jeff wrote: "John 1:1 - If all the quotes you use to support the non-trinitarian version of God are sufficient to do so, why on earth did Freddy see a need to mistranslate John 1:1? Not a single reputable, non-biased scholar accepts the NWT rendering.

  Mad replies: Not true, but that doesn't change the REAL meaning, Jeff! Why didn't you answer those references?

  Don't kid yourself. The support for the trinity is overwhelming in the NT. The ante-nicean fathers were in agreement for centuries on the topic. The word Trinity was used to explain what they already knew, that the God-son Jesus expected, and accepted worship, never claimed to be a created being [like Michael the archangel], and explained that they should request that He himself would send the HS and that He himself would grant answers to prayer.

  Mad replies: Yer puttin' me on! They were the beginning of the Catholic Church, who pulled in ALL kinds of Nonsense from other religions to pull in the masses to control and get money from! They reigned for almost two thousand yeard!

  Further, in the Revelation, given by Jesus to John, Jesus refers to both Himself and the Father as the 'Alpha and Omega'. There has never been argument among trinitarian believers that Jesus' substance on earth was of a differing nature than that of the Father in heaven. His statements reflect those differences. No one had seen God the Father. But of course many have seen God the Son.

  Mad replies: If you can't understand the BASIC scriptures- you'll NEVER understand Revelation!

  Trinity or no Trinity. Perhaps not all that important. But the WTS taking idolatrous worship to itself - now that's a sin with a number. [Hint - Revelation 13:18]

  No offense to you brother Mad - you know I love ya'.

  Mad replies: Than keep the WTBS out of it, Jeff- they, as well as us ALL will have an accounting to Christ!
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  asleif_dufansdottir

  They'll win the Gold medal when it becomes an Olympic Event

  Well, they would win the Gold medal if their gods on the Governing Body allowed particpation in pagan sports events.

  Hah.

  The way things are going with the bOrg, any day now we could find out that they'd been secretly participating in Olympic events for years and the next WT is going to claim they'd never actually been against sports participation and competition.

  I must say I'm a bit surprised. My memory is fuzzy but 20 years ago when I was a Dub I don't remember being tripped up by the whole Jesus/A God thing. We/They had some explanation for that which made perfect sense if you were a JW. The Live Forever book was pretty explicit on this wasn't it? We got hit with the Trinity doctrine fairly frequently on the rare occassions somebody would actually talk to us in service.