WOL's discussion of NGO and UN

by outcast 19 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • outcast
    outcast

    This was cut and pasted, because I don't think the post will last long over at WOL.
    How would you answer this newbie?

    . http://www.witnessesonline.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/witnessesonline/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000102

    Torontonian
    N E W B I E
    posted 10-09-2001 10:04 AM
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    Perhaps you have heard about the issue with the UN's Dept of Public Information and the NGO status. If you have not, i wont bother going into detail. in fact, dont even bother reading on. but since the news seems to be making the rounds on the net and a few news agencies, you may have come across the info or will shortly. i would just like to offer my thoughts on it. since there is no response from the society yet, this is simply my speculative conclusions based on my own research. i hope that this is an appropriate sort of post to make. i think it would be helpful to share useful points.
    Clearly an organization can be legally registered with a governmental office without necessarilly supporting that government. After all, the idea of opposing political parties are incorported right into the governmental structures of most democratic systems that i am aware of. So the mere fact of being associated or registered in and of itself is not an issue.

    The question then becomes the nature of the mutual agreement in the association. Much is made of the words on the UN DPI-NGO site outlining the requirements for associative status:

    quote:
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    Share the ideals of the UN Charter
    Have a demonstrated interest in United Nations issues
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    The UN charter states that the UN has the following four aims:
    * to maintain international peace and security
    * to develop friendly relations among nations
    * to cooperate in solving international problems and in promoting respect for human rights
    * to be a centre for harmonizing the actions of nations

    In principle, you no doubt agree with each of these 4 goals. The society does as well, particularly the third, though obviously disagreeing with methods and ultimate solutions. They are well within their right to oppose methods and ultimate goals while stating that they agree with the principles. That is not being two-faced or deceptive at all. Many organizations which are full-fledged members of the UN clearly disagree with the UN's methods many times (most notable the USA) while agree with the principles. And the associative status with the DPI is far from full-fledged membership. It is not membership at all.

    Later on the DPI-NGO site contains the following text, to which much attention has also been directed:

    quote:
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    Since the founding days of the United Nations in San Francisco, NGOs have made valuable contributions to the international community by drawing attention to issues, suggesting ideas and programmes, disseminating information and mobilizing public opinion in support of the UN and its Specialized Agencies. Association with DPI constitutes a commitment to that effect. Associated NGOs are expected to devote a portion of their information programmes to promoting knowledge of the United Nations' principles and activities.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Note that the portion regarding 'mobilizing public opinion in support of the UN' is simply a statement of what many NGOs have done, not a requirement. When describing the required level support of an associated NGO in the next sentence, it again uses the term 'UN principles' which we would all agree, im sure, that the Society is active in supporting and promoting knowledge of. This does not constitute a compromise of Christian neutrality at all.

    It appears that of the benefits received by an NGO that seeks associative status with the DPI, the only one that the society has any need for is access to the NGO Resource Centre, including libraries, video archives and press releases. Indeed, recent publications make many reference to UN studies and statistics and include many photos from the UN archives. No secret is made of this fact. It seems to me then, a fair analogy would be to obtaining a library card from a government-run library. You get access to the library. You likely agree to certain rules of conduct to do so. Perhaps you agree not to use the library information for purposes that are counter to the ideals of the government, like publishing literature that fosters hate or sedition. This in no way constitutes support of the government that operates the library, does it?

    This seems a non-issue to me. Am i missing something? i would appreciate further comments, perhaps from people more familiar with the facts.

    T.O

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  • Trevor Scott
    Trevor Scott

    To answer his question, yes he is missing something.

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    Since the founding days of the United Nations in San Francisco, NGOs have made valuable contributions to the international community by drawing attention to issues, suggesting ideas and programmes, disseminating information and mobilizing public opinion in support of the UN and its Specialized Agencies. Association with DPI constitutes a commitment to that effect. Associated NGOs are expected to devote a portion of their information programmes to promoting knowledge of the United Nations' principles and activities.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Note that the portion regarding 'mobilizing public opinion in support of the UN' is simply a statement of what many NGOs have done, not a requirement.

    The poster conveniently ignores the next sentence, which says "Association with DPI constitutes a commitment to that effect."

    He also ignored the sentence immediately following the lines he quoted, which says "they are expected to keep the DPI/NGO Section abreast of their activities by regularly providing samples of their information materials relating to the work of the UN".

    He also did not mention:

    "The Department of Public Information and NGOs cooperate regularly"

    "NGOs associated with DPI disseminate information about the UN to their membership, thereby building knowledge of and support for the Organization at the grassroots level"

    "Publicizing UN activities around the world on such issues as peace and security"

    Real nice straw-man,

    TS,

  • sweetone2377
    sweetone2377

    Witnesses who do not want to believe that the WTS is affiliated with the UN as an NGO, will make exuses and will not believe it, no matter how clear the facts are.

    So Sad that they have been so blinded.

    Shelly

    "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled." ~ Matt. 5:6

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    So lets see now.

    If a JW got up in front of the congregation and knowingly stated that he/she "voluntarily associates" and "supports" the United States consitution or the United Nations charter. What would happen? Can you say disassociation.

    So why is it not okay for a JW to knowingly support a constitution/charter dealing with freedoms etc. but its okay for higher up Watchtower men to support the United Nation's (scarlet coloured wild beast's) charter.

    Tell your buddy at WOL to go read the Nov. 15/01 Watchtower!!!

    hawk

  • Leander
    Leander

    Here's my 2 cents:

    Basically this can be summed up in 3 or 4 sentences. First off the Society has taught for years that any religion that supports the UN is in effect committing spiritual fornication with Satan's organization. With that being said the question is now "Does the society support the UN by its NGO status? We can answer this question by referring back to the requirements of an NGO which are:

    - Share the ideals of the UN Charter
    - Have a demonstrated interest in United Nations issues

    No more really needs to be said.

  • siegswife
    siegswife

    You should direct his attention to the fact that the WTS has been living up to their commitment in the AWAKE magazine. They draw attention to and mention a UN agency in every edition.

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    Me: "Hey Torontonian, I'm going to a wedding. Wanna join me?"
    T: "Sure, sounds great. Where is the wedding?"
    Me: "At the Catholic church on the corner."
    T: "Uh, no, I can't go."
    Me: "Why not?"
    T: "Because it's at the Catholic church! I can't go there. That would be false worship."
    Me: "It's just a wedding ceremony, not false worship. What's wrong with a wedding?"
    T: "I know, but it would give the wrong impression. People might think I'm supporting the church."
    Me: "Even though you know you aren't?"
    T: "Right, I wouldn't even want to give the wrong impression."
    Me: "So why is it OK for the WTS to seek associate status with the UN DPI?"

  • betweenworlds
    betweenworlds
    Shawnster
    WOL Stepper
    posted 10-09-2001 10:47 AM
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    A couple of other thoughts to keep in mind...
    The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is a legal corporation whose function is the printing of religious literature. Period. It is not the Faithful and Discreet Slave of Matthew 24:45-47, nor has it ever been, despite the fact that members of the Faithful Slave held legal positions in the corporation for years.

    In short, Jehovah's Witnesses do not follow the Watchotwer Society. We receive our instructions via the Faithful Slave. The Fatifhul Slave uses the Watchtower Society to dispense the food, but that may change in the future.

    Another thought to keep in mind: The denunciation of mankind's rulership of man, the prophetic description of the UN has not changed. Whatever is said to the contrary, I do not see any change, any new light, any watering down of the message that the UN is the 8th King of Revelation and that it is the disgusting thing standing where it ought not as mentioned in Daniel.

    Shawnster

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    Huh?? So now the WTBTS are completely seperate from the governing body and either can do whatever they want without one affecting the other? Again the wizard of Oz comes to mind {PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN (or in this case *men*) BEHIND THE CURTAIN!}
    What truly bizarre reasoning, or lack thereof.
    Oh yeah, that and the fact that a member of the above mentioned governing bodies signature was on the FREAKIN' application. sheesh

    "The important thing is to not stop questioning" Albert Einstein

  • Moxy
    Moxy

    shawnster's reply is typical. the relationship between the true GB and the WTS may change at any time, eh? my question is: how would you know if it did? think about that for a second and then ask yourself: how do you know it hasnt already? (think rutherford and board of directors)

    mox

  • Seeker
    Seeker
    I do not see any change, any new light, any watering down of the message that the UN is the 8th King of Revelation and that it is the disgusting thing standing where it ought not as mentioned in Daniel.

    Oh? I thought that was changed recently to say that the 'disgusting thing standing where it ought not' was yet a future event. If so, Shawnster is already behind the times and the thing that couldn't even have been foreseen already happened.

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