What does it mean to be saved?

by tan 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Perry
    Perry

    Nark,

    Nice try.

    When the Matthean Jesus says "just do it," that must actually mean "it can't be done unless you first acknowledge me as Saviour and Lord, and then you are saved whether you do it or not".

    Matthew 9:11 When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?" 12 On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    Were the "righteous" that Jesus was addressing here in Matthew, really righteous? Why did Jesus give a riddle and then say go and learn what this means? Have you gone to the source and learned what that meant? What do you think that he meant? So, if Jesus called people righteous who were not really righteous and preferred the company of known sinners; is it too much a stretch for you to accept that "just do it" is a conviction as well as a tantalizing truth under the power of the spirit?
    John 16:7-15
    7 But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10 in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned. 12 "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.

    The first part of your statement above is one of the main prerequisites of being saved. If you are not convicted, you don't know that you need to be saved. It's like some degenerate that rapes someone. To him it's not bad because it felt good at the end. At the trial he feels bad because he was caught and faces punishment. If he himself gets raped in prison, he then thinks rape is bad. Correction follows conviction.

    In polite society, we are guilty of many moral crimes not so terrible as above and not easily punishable by law. But the process is the same. Conviction before reform.

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien
    Is it biblical?

    it doesn't have anything to do with the bible or xianity.

    you know, "what does it mean to be saved?" -- "be" being the key word here, not "saved".

    if a xian knows the difference between being and having, and lives it, then like "jesus the nazarene" (or what he represents), they are probably also saved, existentially speaking.

    tetra

  • Perry
    Perry

    Excellent Observation Terry:

    1. If God has a perfect, righteous standard; he cannot "forgive" imperfection without violating that standard.

    This is true, that is way he punished himself so that YOUR sin would be punished.... get it now?

    2.If God extends "mercy" it constitutes relaxing a perfect judgement and lowering His standard.

    Not if the sin debt was punished right? I mean you wouldn't want to punish a man twice for the same crime would you? If you stole a car and I paid your debt plus fantastic interest what victum would object to your release, right? If you stayed in prison, who wins? Nobody, both you and the victum lose. But If I pay the debt plus fantastic interest, everyone wins. Do you see now?

    3.If man "deserves" death; he deserves death. The "deserves" has to be from a certain point of view which is either right or it is wrong. To ignore what man "deserves" is to destroy the means by which one measures right and wrong.

    Here you lost me. What sin is God ignoring in your charge against him?

    In view of the above:

    Man is what he is and God has a choice about how to view that and how to act in regard to man. All judgement is, in the final analysis, God's opinion. If God has a basis for his opinion it cannot be both correct, true, righteous and also completely suspended at the same time.

    Salavation simply makes no sense.

    Terry, with all due respect, God has already acted.....there is nothing suspended as you muse. The only reason Salvation makes no sense to you is that you are not yet convicted about your own sin (seems like you think sin is relative) and you do not factor in God punishing himself for you at all. If you don't look at those two things (in reality the only ones that matter) then yes nothing makes sense including your own existence.

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