The CATHOLIC doctrine of the Faithful and Discreet Slave??? Yes!!

by Terry 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

Terry

Majesterium (Sacred Tradition) is a technical theological term used in some Christian traditions, primarily in the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox traditions, to refer to the fundamental basis of church dogma. The term refers to the "deposit of faith" that these churches hold was communicated by Jesus Christ to his first followers, and which they hold has been passed down (Latin tradere, to hand over or hand down) through succeeding generations. The church as a community, therefore, was the initial receiver, and has remained the guardian and codifier, of Sacred Tradition. In the theology of these churches, Sacred Scripture (the Bible), is the written part of this larger tradition, recording (albeit sometimes through the work of individual authors) the community's experience of God or more specifically of Jesus Christ. Hence the Bible must be interepreted within the context of Sacred Tradition and within the community of the church. Sacred Tradition, and thus Sacred Scripture as well, are "inspired," another technical theological term indicating that they contain and communicate the truths of faith and morals God intended to make known for mankind's salvation.
This is in contrast to many Protestant traditions, which believe that the Bible alone is an adequate and complete basis for all Christian teaching (a position known as "Sola Scriptura") and that an individual Christian alone can interpret the Bible .
It doesn't take a genius to see the Watchtower Society uses the identical argument for its own authority that the Catholic church has used for hundreds of years!
Protestants use the bible alone (sola scriptura) while the Catholic church maintains God uses them by imparting authority to speak (majesterium) through one channel only!
Maria Russell (C.T.Russell's wife) applied this Catholic doctrine to herself and her husband. Pastor Russell discreetly acknowledged it about himself.
J.F.Rutherford expanded it to include all anointed (at his whim) and the FDS gradually became just a few "particular" anointed (Governing Body members).
Today this doctrine is fuzzy and distorted far beyond its original description. The bible is only written to the anointed, we are told and it is by associating with the anointed and listening to the specific pronouncement of the elite FDS in Broolyn that non-anointed can be saved.
Thus, the Other Sheep have two redeemers and two channels to go through: the FDS and Jesus.
The Watchtower Society exactly copies the argument of the Catholic Church by asserting a TRADITION of linkage of all important "faithful" through the ages from Abel to Martin Luther, etc. This ridiculous argument serves them well as it has served Catholics.
The FDS doctrine is little understood by the average JW sitting in a Kingdom Hall. Any explanation given about WHO is anointed and who isn't will be met with gibberish, mumbo jumbo and mystical nonsense!
"They just know" is the bottom line!
The Watchtower Society has extreme problems with this doctrine and wishes it could get away from it because the number of remaining anointed (the remnant) is SUPPOSED TO DECREASE TO A VANISHINGLY SMALL NUMBER and this is supposed to parallel the END TIMES approach to Armageddon!
It doesn't!
This should be very embarassing and it is!
The Governing Body has been working on solving this problem for decades.
Stay Tuned to see with what they think up next as the wriggle away from the implications of yet more and more and more NEW anointed being added to the roster!
Terry

(From: Let us Reason)
The Catechism of the Catholic Church Paragraph 77, “The apostles left bishops as their successors. They gave them their own position of teaching authority.'“
“This living transmission, accomplished through the Holy Spirit, is called tradition...”( Catechism of the Catholic Church Par. 78 )
So what exactly is Tradition? “Tradition is the word living continuously in the hearts of the faithful,”(489) “the living memorial of God's Word.” ( Catechism 13178, 113, 2650, 2661.)
The Roman Catholic affirms three sources of authority. Scripture (which includes 11 or more additional books known as the Apocrypha). Apostolic tradition (which their church alone has except for their new competition from the Mormons), and the teaching office of the Majesterium. What is included in these three areas are the primacy of Peter, apostolic succession, Papal authority and when the Pope speaks Ex Cathedra he is infallible on what is said (often termed as speaking on faith and morals). This something that has been attributed to Scripture not any man who comes later.
How does traditions that were not practiced early on become dogma later? Where did they come from? How is it the very traditions that we are told were practiced from the beginning are mostly written down? Doesn’t this make them scripture, not just tradition!
The council of Trent in 1565 stated All the faithful Catholics must agree I shall never accept or interpret scripture otherwise in accordance with the unanimous concept of the fathers. “ the office of interpreting scripture is totally entrusted to the teaching Majesterium of the church. There are only 8 passages Rome claims they can interpret that no one else can.
In a similar manner the Pharisee’s claimed they alone had the right to interpret and enforce scripture, and that is when everything went wrong. Trouble followed when the right to read and study were in the hands of the few, instead of the many. When Jesus rebuked the Pharisee’s it wasn’t because they didn’t understand tradition, but because they didn’t understand the word of God. Their tradition made the word of no effect. (Mk.7) they stopped the people from reading the word and had them concentrate on their traditions instead.
It is a known fact that the Roman Catholic Church did not always recommend for people to read the scriptures, “Since it is clear from experience that if the Sacred Books are permitted everywhere and without discrimination in the vernacular (in the common language of the people) there will by reasons of the boldness of men arise there from more harm than good...” (Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent, p. 274). It is also clear that many a Pope did not promote scripture. Pope Pius the 7 th Encyclical letter of 1816 “It is evident, from experience, that the Holy Scriptures when circulated in the vulgar tongue, have produced more harm than benefit…We have deliberated upon the measures proper to be adopted, by our pontifical authority, in order to remedy and abolish the pestilence.” It was for this reason it was left in Latin (the Holy language) and read mostly by priests). This was a most unfortunate change.
“As it has been clearly shown by experience that, if the holy Bible in the vernacular is generally permitted without any distinction, more harm than utility is thereby caused...” (Great Encyclical Letters of Leo XIII, pp. 412-413).
The more you study the Catholic evolution of Athority; the more you understand how the Watchtower Bible and Tract society mirrors the church exactly!
Pahpa

I agree. And recent events have proven that the Watchtower itself has argued the Catholic position. For example, in the Bohham, Texas case the lawyers argued that the Watchtower was a "hierarchy." And in the cases that involved sexual abuse of children, it has argued its right of "clergy privileges" such as the confidentiality of the confessional.
There can be little doubt of its belief in "majesterium." Any who question the authority of the Governing Body will soon find himself excommunicated.
In fact, it has been noted by some that the Watchtower is "more Catholic" now than the Catholic church!
A Paduan

Protestants use the bible alone (sola scriptura) while the Catholic church maintains God uses them by imparting authority to speak (majesterium) through one channel only!
This appears to be a subjective extrapolation at the start of your postulation - a jw method in itself
It doesn't take a genius to see the Watchtower Society uses the identical argument for its own authority that the Catholic church has used for hundreds of years!
It is quite different - the watchtower society in recent history simply thought up some strange theological reasons to support their imaginings of superiority, and their subsequent faith in their way of thinking. The catholic church has had tradition passed down for not just hundreds but now thousands of years, and since the earliest formations of christianty. They have kept and reproduced (after selecting, and by hand writing) the scriptures that intermittent sects such as the jws accuse them of "not knowing" and so on. I can only imagine what it would be like for a monk to be accused by a religious sectarian of having no bible knowledge, afer having written one.
Pahpa

A Paduan
History proves how the Catholic church used every method within its powerful authority to subject people and to repress knowledge of the Bible. Any one who oppossed the church was a "heretic." It was the Protestant reformation that forced the changes in the church so that it began to produce the Bible in the vernacular. But even then, Catholics were instructed that only their priests could interpret the Scriptures.
This abuse of its authority and its claim of exclusiveness as God's organization is what we see as a similarity between the Catholic church and the Watchtower Society.
Terry

Protestants use the bible alone (sola scriptura) while the Catholic church maintains God uses them by imparting authority to speak (majesterium) through one channel only!
This appears to be a subjective extrapolation at the start of your postulation - a jw method in itself
How so? Please elucidate.
It doesn't take a genius to see the Watchtower Society uses the identical argument for its own authority that the Catholic church has used for hundreds of years!
It is quite different - the watchtower society in recent history simply thought up some strange theological reasons to support their imaginings of superiority, and their subsequent faith in their way of thinking. The catholic church has had tradition passed down for not just hundreds but now thousands of years, and since the earliest formations of christianty. They have kept and reproduced (after selecting, and by hand writing) the scriptures that intermittent sects such as the jws accuse them of "not knowing" and so on. I can only imagine what it would be like for a monk to be accused by a religious sectarian of having no bible knowledge, afer having written one.
The Watchtower Society claims it is merely LAST and most IMPORTANT in the unbroken chain from Abel. What the Catholic Church has is a CLAIM as well. The Orthodox church is proof enough that the Catholic position wasn't all that convincing.
aikichristian
Lets not forget that the Bible was developed by the Catholic Church. The books of Bible were finalized by 397AD (Council of Carthage). It was reaffirmed in the Council of Trent (1545-1563). So the finalized contents of the Bible were decided long before the Protestant Reformation (approx. 1517 - 95 Thesis).
The Catholic Church, unlike the WTS uses more "concrete" Scriptural references in its claims to authority. Additionally, it does not limit heaven's capacity to 144,000 (Faithful and Discreet Slave class). The Church does not use the Faithful and Discreet Slave position as its basis for authority. No pope, saint, or religious has claimed themselves to be part of the 144,000. However, the Church does not believe that Christ left the interpretation of the Bible to just anyone who picks it up and reads it.
I think Jesus felt that His teachings were important enough to protect rather than just let the chips fall where they may. He wanted to make sure His truths were protected and authorized.
Why do you think that there are so many Christian denominations? There are over 30,000 in the United States alone. The method used to create so many denominations is because each person was left to their own devices while reading the Bible.
Martin Luther saw it one way.
John Calvin saw it another way.
Charles Taze Rusell saw it another way.
The list can go on and on. But what each of these men, some who are founders of their respective religions, is that they do not have any credible lineage of authority back to Christ. Nor did they receive direct authority from Christ to interpret or protect His Truths, because that would make them 2,000 years old.
The Catholics don't use the Faithful and Discreet Slave as their basis for authority. The WTS does. Catholic beliefs and doctrines have been more consistent, perhaps even unchanging, than the WTS who use the "light of truth is becoming brighter" argument when they're suddenly wrong.
Here are some of many verses which support the Catholic's position of authority:
- Luke 10:16
- 1 Timothy 3:15
- Romans 13:1-2
- Matthew 28:18-20
- Ephesians 2:19-20
- Deuteronomy 17:8-12 (Old Testament example of the Magesterium/teaching authority)
The structure of salvation has always been ordered in a hierarchy. The more recent anarchigal structure (interpret it yourself, based on "Sola Scriptura") has lead to repeated fragmentations at a higher rate and magnitude than pre-Reformation. The WTS is just one of those many resultant fragmentations.
Unlike the WTS, the Catholic Church uses more concrete positions to defend itself and it has the history to back it up. The Catholic Church predates the Bible which you hold in your hand and read. The WTS will never possess it.
I cannot deny that the Catholic Church has been violent in its enforcement of its authority, but it is not alone. For example, governments frequently use violence and threats of violence to enforce its rules, and ideals. Also other Christian religions have done the same: Puritans (witch hunts), Religious Wars of the Middle Ages (Catholics vs Protestants), etc.
Assertion of authority, legitimately or illegitimately claimed/attained, is nothing new to human, or even animal history.
jwfacts

As a result the Catholic Church suffers the same cognitive dissonance as do JWs, claiming an infallible Pope who most obviously is far from infallible. I found the following quote in an article from the Cath Encylopedia about Magisterium that is very similar to the Watchtower doctrine of "the light gets brighter", a necessary but senseless doctrine to explain away ongoing errors and changes.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15006b.htm "There is, therefore in the Church progress of dogma, progress of theology, progress to a certain extent of faith itself, but this progress does not consist in the addition of fresh information nor the change of ideas. What is believed has always been believed, but in time it is more commonly and thoroughly understood and explicitly expressed."
A Paduan

History proves how the Catholic church used every method within its powerful authority to subject people and to repress knowledge of the Bible.
They knew what many people did with it - post reformation examples abound, eg. jwism - I'm not defending catholic dogmas, but they did understand what some people would do when they got hold of it, and I don't mean "be a better christian"
This abuse of its authority and its claim of exclusiveness as God's organization is what we see as a similarity between the Catholic church and the Watchtower Society.
The similarities are like the catholic church of a bygone era - it's a comparison with different cultures in time.
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As a result the Catholic Church suffers the same cognitive dissonance as do JWs, claiming an infallible Pope who most obviously is far from infallible. I found the following quote in an article from the Cath Encylopedia about Magisterium that is very similar to the Watchtower doctrine of "the light gets brighter", a necessary but senseless doctrine to explain away ongoing errors and changes.
"not everything in a conciliar or papal pronouncement, in which some doctrine is defined, is to be treated as definitive and infallible"
The infallibility spoken of refers only to ex-cathedra teaching on faith and morals
Narkissos

Magisterium, for Benedict's sake!

The CATHOLIC doctrine of the Faithful and Discreet Slave??? Yes!!

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