Rolf Furuli

by Alleymom 36 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Terry
    Terry
    Now, Rolf's other book by "Awatu" aka Rolf was criticised for expounding a
    Jehovah's Witness chronology in the guise of academic study. Maybe this
    book is to be criticised for expounding a Jehovah's Witness verbal system
    in the guise of academic study. That is, this isn't a simple revolutionary
    attempt to read the verbal system of Hebrew. It is an attempt to defend a
    Jehovah's Witness outlook on the verbal system. For example, perhaps
    let us assume that because of some lack of expertise on the part of NWT
    translators, some verbs which were intended past were translated future.
    Rolf's study then comes to an aid and says that this is not a problem
    because it is not that NWT translators got it wrong. It is that we don't
    understand the verbal system of Hebrew.

    There is nothing wrong, of course, with a fresh new study of the verbal
    system of Hebrew. There is nothing wrong with a revolutionary reading
    of the verbal system. What would come out of the above is that the
    study may be an attempt to defend the good name of the Jehovah's
    Witness organization. In order to do that, it is apparently permissible
    (according to the above article) for Jehovah's Witnesses to deceive
    and outright lie to those who are not entitled to know the truth. If a
    Jehovah's Witness is not always entitled to know the truth, then
    apparently non-Jehovah's Witnesses on the list certainly fit in the
    category of "enemies."

    So there may be an agenda, and a willful attempt to deceive in a study
    such as Rolf, if it is, of course, an attempt to defend the good name of
    the Jehovah's Witness organization. Circumstantially, it may appear that
    this is the case, and also that indeed deceptions or errors are used. The
    above tiny example regarding "private publishing" may be a clear case
    where true deception, not an error, has been exposed. But one is left to
    wonder regarding the errors Peter notes, or the flawed methodology that
    I attempted to pinpoint. These may not be simple errors or oversights,
    but real tools from the point of view of Rolf. Most of us do not have at
    our hands the ability to check Rolf's statistics of various hebrew forms.
    But in light of the above, can we trust them?

    For me, in any case, the answer is a clear resounding No. I normally
    accept the good will and intentions of those who put their efforts into
    studying a subject, even if they are "fundamentalist-minded", as Rolf
    may be described and as I originally viewed Rolf. When I originally
    wrote to Rolf that his other verse example to contrast with 1 Kings 6:1
    is methodologically flawed because it doesn't exist, I viewed that as
    secondary. But it is now clear to me that Rolf could conceivably and
    in my view, very probably has, made up and invented data for the
    advancement of his position.

    I welcome the study by George Athas. I am not saying a new reading
    of the Hebrew verbal system is out of place. I also think most Jehovah
    Witness members of this list are probably wholesome in their intentions,
    although I would probably be double checking from now on. But I cannot
    trust the data, conclusions, and methods as discussed by Rolf. I must
    conclude that they could be heavily doctored to an agenda that
    attempts to justify Jehovah's Witnesses' view and translation of
    the Bible, to the point where the data would not just be deceptive, but
    be even totally made up.

    I suppose that from my point of view, no "yiqtol" so clearly and succinctly
    displays the problems in Rolf's thesis than the one in Exodus 23:7a.

    Yitzhak Sapir

    The "scholars" of the New World Society of Jehovah's Witless crave academic authenticity almost as much as they claim it.

    Instead, duplicity is the only road to backing up their peculiar mindset.

    Peer review is entirely out of the question from the getgo, naturally; their "methodology" is illusory, ad hoc and insupportable.

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    From what I can surmise regarding the thrust of these emails, that is that Furuli misled people by suggesting his book was not 'privately printed', Furuli's defense is interesting.

    His defense is rather like the boss who when he does not want to speak to a person on the telephone, and wants to keep a clear if compromised conscience, steps outside his office and shouts to the secretary from the doorway, 'Tell them I am not here'.

    Furuli may feel that the inclusion of others in what he admits is a small self-motivated printing company may allow him to claim that his book was not 'privately printed', but he has not explained why he claimed not be in his his office when he shouted instructions from its doorway! This is a typical Pharisaical interpretation of truth as expressed by a Jehovah's Witness. We have all been there, we have all seen it, we have all done it.

    The lines between 'technical' truth and a moral ducking and weaving have never meant that much to the WTS. I believe that Carl Jonsson has made public more than one lie that Furuli has been trapped in, yet he seems impervious to the scrutiny.

    HS

  • Dogpatch
    Dogpatch

    Thank you Alleymom, that was interesting. I'll keep it in my arsenal.

    Randy

  • veradico
    veradico

    I've read Furuli's essay in the _Your Word Is Truth_ book. He does not address the fact that ancient translations, paraphrases, and commentaries made by native speakers of Hebrew manifestly demonstrate that these people felt the force of the Waw Conversive/Consecutive/Conservative. Nor does he address the evidence from other Semitic languages which suggests that the Waw Conservative is utilizing and preserving certain features of ancient Semitic language (particularly in narrative contexts)—cf. J. Weingreen, _A Practical Grammar for Classical Hebrew_, Oxford University Press, 1959, pp. 90-91, 252-3 [the latter passage is by G. R. Driver]. Instead, he seems to have divided the verbs of the OT, the DSS, and the inscriptions into his own categories of semantic force. He then shows that the perfective verbs with and without waw prefixed fall into certain categories while imperfective verbs with and without waw fall into other categories; thus, he concludes that there is no semantic difference, merely a difference in appearance/sound. My primary objection is that his division of the verbs into his categories is rather subjective, whereas the morphological differences are visibly/audibly objective. I assume he interacts more fully with the observations and conclusions of such modern grammarians as Waltke and O’Connor in his doctoral thesis. The question of how to handle the Waw Consecutive is fascinating. Certainly, Furuli and the Witnesses are not alone in rejecting it. Other grammarians and translators have done so as well. But I’ve yet to see any make a thorough and convincing argument against the existence of this grammatical rule. The NWT translators certainly did not try. All of their arguments (in the Reference edition of 1984 and in the discussion found in the original green volumes) are arguments from authority. I look forward to reading what Furuli has to say to see whether he has anything more substantial to contribute.

  • Hellrider
    Hellrider

    Ah yes, Rolf Furuli. he makes me embarassed of being norwegian, and he`s an embarassment to the University in Oslo (I spent a year there myself). I don`t think his colleagues are to happy about him...and how he uses his degree to promote his religion. It`s embarassing to the institution as a whole.

  • UnConfused
    UnConfused

    **** Here Rolf admits to being on the Hospital Liaison Committee for 10 years ******
    http://www.bmj.com/cgi/eletters/322/7277/37#12803


    The conscience of the individual Jehovah's Witness as a basis for refusing blood 23 February 2001
    Previous Rapid Response Next Rapid Response Top
    Rolf J Furuli,
    Research fellow in Semitic languages
    University of Oslo, Norway

    Send response to journal:
    Re: The conscience of the individual Jehovah's Witness as a basis for refusing blood



  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Thanks for the info veradico.

    He does not address the fact that ancient translations, paraphrases, and commentaries made by native speakers of Hebrew manifestly demonstrate that these people felt the force of the Waw Conversive/Consecutive/Conservative. Nor does he address the evidence from other Semitic languages which suggests that the Waw Conservative is utilizing and preserving certain features of ancient Semitic language. Instead, he seems to have divided the verbs of the OT, the DSS, and the inscriptions into his own categories of semantic force.

    As a (non-Semiticist) linguist myself, I can say that this is perfectly legitimate methodology in corpus linguistics....in which you work with a synchronic group of data to discover the linguistic patterns therein without recourse to diachronic or external (e.g. comparative linguistic) facts. I don't think he can be faulted here. Rather, it is the representativeness of his corpus (e.g. in terms of standard deviation) and the quality of his analysis. These other facts would then come into play if these highlight flaws in his analysis or indicate that his sample was not representative.

    He then shows that the perfective verbs with and without waw prefixed fall into certain categories while imperfective verbs with and without waw fall into other categories; thus, he concludes that there is no semantic difference, merely a difference in appearance/sound. My primary objection is that his division of the verbs into his categories is rather subjective, whereas the morphological differences are visibly/audibly objective.

    It is subjective if he does not clearly specify the criteria for categorizing verbal aspects and consistently follow them. But it is perfectly possible to do an objective analysis of verbal semantics. It all depends on the nitty-gritty details of his analysis.

    Anyone here (Marjorie?) who is a member of this message board? It would add to the discussion if the bit in the NWT Appendix was brought to their attention, as it directly bears on the discussion.

  • veradico
    veradico

    I appreciate your argument in his behalf, Leolaia. You're charitable. I would agree with it, if, for example, Furuli were to try to argue explicitly from a synchronic perspective that the waw consecutive is an element of Classical Hebrew that later interpreters and translators (but, then, all translators are interpreters) wrongly read into the texts of the OT under foreign linguistic influences. Still, I think treating the whole OT, DSS, and inscription corpus synchronically might be methodologically unsound, just as it's silly for Witnesses to leap from one Bible book to another as if they are all the same work. There is grammatical development even within the OT corpus. Therefore, Furuli should also demonstrate that his new verbal theory is applicable to all of the OT texts (and the DSS and the inscriptions). Furthermore, to my knowledge, he has not demonstrated enough historical awareness even to dismiss these questions with an airy gesture. This leads me to worry that he has not even considered such objections or that he did consider them and found them too uncomfortable to address in print. He's quite creative, however, and worth reading, even if just for entertainment.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    veradico....My understanding was that he restricted his corpus to data from the Pentateuch, tho I might be wrong. You're absolutely right if he generalizes his conclusions beyond this corpus to biblical Hebrew as a whole, across genres and time periods, etc. then all that other stuff comes into play. I was saying that it is perfectly legitimate to do a corpus study with a set of synchronic data and deduce grammatical patterns therein without necessarily having any recourse to diachronic or comparative data. You could even do a corpus data with diachronic data and make generalizations if the patterns hold true over the corpus, or if variations are predictable, although there one would want to look at other forms of diachronic evidence. (I know because I have done such studies in my own work)

    There is grammatical development even within the OT corpus. Therefore, Furuli should also demonstrate that his new verbal theory is applicable to all of the OT texts (and the DSS and the inscriptions).

    Exactly....I agree with that completely. But also I would want to see how the data are selected, how was the sampling done (if Furuli was not analyzing the entire Pentateuch or individual literary units), for one could select data that supports a favored conclusion. And I would want to see how the determination of semantic categories was done and how tokens were classified on a case by case basis...

  • Sunspot
    Sunspot

    Goodness! I have nothing interesting or deep to add to this thread but I wanted to say 'thank you' to Marjorie for posting this!

    hugs,

    Annie

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