Those raised as JWs-Do you recall the path of doubts that led you to leave?

by ithinkisee 49 Replies latest jw friends

  • ithinkisee
    ithinkisee

    I posted a similar topic a year and a half ago. I thought with all the new people it would be interesting to ask it again. I'll start with mine:

    Doubts as a child:

    • Warnings in the literature that the "the devil transforms himself into an angel of light" and can appear like the truth. I used to think - "well, that might mean Satan could be posing as Jehovah's Witnesses too."
    • The age-old fallacy: How do we know the Bible is from God? Because it says so in the Bible! (I didn't even know what fallacies were back then ...)
    • Birthdays and minor holidays like mothers day, fathers day, etc. I had a hard time finding the evil in them.
    • Beards too. I would ask myself "if it really is a conscience matter why do they make people with beards feel like crap?"
    • My mom and the congregation telling me my dad is really Satan trying to turn me away from Jehovah.
    • Constant pressure to conform by using guilt. I remember thinking when they read scriptures about how we serve out of "love for our creator" that I did not feel that. It was just because I felt guilty I wasn't doing what they said I was "supposed" to be doing.
    Doubts While at Bethel (19 yrs old):

    • General obsession with money and position by almost all at Bethel - especially the higher-up ones.
    • The Society's fascination with their buildings, and their constant bragging about them (anyone who has been on a Bethel tour knows what I am talking about) When my non-JW dad toured bethel while I was there he remarked how proud they seem to be of their g*ddamned elevators.
    • The creature worship of the Governing Body by Bethelites and visitors..
    • You move move ahead ENTIRELY by who you know and who you make alliances with.
    • Very high up and longtime brothers at Bethel who seemed very unhappy - and downright rude and mean.
    • Told by a brother in writing department under his breath, that they had a UN membership and would go to the UN to research - trying to identify the King of the North - and to listen in on meetings to see if anything would tip them off to the Great Tribulation.
    • Told by a brother in Writing Dept that the reason they came out with another Creation book so soon after the other one was because they were threatened with lawsuits because of the misquotes.
    • Learning from brothers in writing and service departments that often the articles written in the magazines and talks at the conventions are meant to address specific problems - and the problem isn't usually readily apparent in the title or general subject of the talk/article.
    Doubts After Bethel. Married - Without Kids:

    • Going out in service and meeting a pastor at the door. He calmly set us down and did some "seed-planting", methodically showing me and my wife how the New World Translation twisted texts to fit their doctrine by blatantly adding to scripture (or leaving stuff out). Rendering the same word differently in different places. His final words to me were - "If you don't listen to ANYTHING I tell you, listen to this - PLEASE go back and study the original Greek."
    • Generation change in 1995,1996. This is the main thing that HAD kept me going in the truth - based on the Awake! masthead - a promise from Jehovah. A prophesy from the Society in Jehovah's name. Once they admitted they were wrong on this - I thought to myself - they could be wrong on everything! I realized at that moment I would die in this system. I lamented not going to college.
    • My parents divorce - my dad had an "apostate" lawyer. This apostate lawyer (I now realize in hindsight) also used this opportunity as seed-planting. He basically went through the entire range of JW teachings - with the apostate slant - in the court papers. Our whole family read these papers. These affected me greatly, and certain points from these papers would come back to haunt me from time to time.
    • Also during my parents divorce, the Society provided us with a booklet that detailed "How" to respond to questioning in court. I remember being a little disturbed at how the responses we were to give weren't entirely truthful.
    • About the same time as the divorce I started going to college (now that the Society had given the OK). One of the first classes I took was called "Logic and Reasoning". We spent the whole semester learning about logical fallacies. Over the years I began to identify them in the Society's literature.
    • A bible study my wife and I conducted with a young, but very Christian family. The husband - very nice and sincere - said that with all honesty that he could (and had) read the entire New Testament (multiple times) and felt that the Trinity was very clearly taught in scripture. I was annoyed with him because I took the WT line that "anyone who reads the bible with an open mind could not POSSIBLY come to the conclusion that Jesus was God. (This reminded me of the old pastor encouraging me to study the original Greek.)
    • Off and on I would make lists of things that bothered me I wanted to research. For various reasons (WT scant revealing of quotes, date inconsistencies I blamed on myself being unable to figure out, feelings of guilt that I was being presumptuous or nitpicking) I gave up. This happened probably a dozen times.
    After Bethel & Married - With Kids:

    • The "Generation change" continued to gnaw at me.
    • Wife pregnant with first child. Was not fully convinced in my mind that "no blood" was something I wanted to commit to. She had to actually break the ice with the doctor regarding the blood issue. I couldn't bring myself to do it.
    • UN Scandal. Came across my Google News feed - the UK Guardian article. I remembered my old friend in the Writing Dept telling me about this when I was a Bethelite in the early 90's.
    • Pedophile scandal. NBC Dateline Story and I was struck by how no JWs wanted to talk about it.
    • Recognizing more faulty reasoning in the magazines - fallacies.
    • Increasing frequency of Circuit Overseers (in the congregation) and Bethel speakers (at assemblies) saying, "Even if what the Faithful Discreet Slave says does not make a bit of sense to you, just DO WHAT THEY SAY. THEY are the CHOSEN channel."
    • A bethel speaker at an assembly said, "Apostates and other opposers of truth will attempt to use LOGIC to persuade you that this isn't the Truth."
    • More and more articles, and talks from CO's encouraged getting baptized very young. Without saying a SPECIFIC AGE - they still said if a kid is in high school, they should have been baptized. I felt this is wrong - and even voiced as much to my wife. Baptism talks always state that "this is one of the most important decisions in your life". If that is so, and they are old enough to make a decision that affects their whole life - then they should also be able to get married, and make many other life-altering decisions. To me it felt like recruitement - "Get em while they're young and lock em in so that if they leave they would also lose their whole family."
    • My oldest daughter got to school age and my own feelings as a child of not eating a cupcake on the day of someone's birthday came flooding back to me. I began to regret what my daughter was going to have to go through in school.
    • Off and on I would make lists of things that bothered me I wanted to research. For various reasons (WT scant revealing of quotes, date inconsistencies I blamed on myself being unable to figure out, feelings of guilt that I was being presumptuous or nitpicking) I gave up.
    • Spending money and time we didn't have to spend a weekend at the assembly, and walking away from the assembly feeling guilty that I wasn't doing enough. Also feeling guilty because I wanted to better myself or make more money or pursue a hobby. General feelings of guilt and getting tired of feeling guilty for things I didn't feel were wrong.
    • 10-year wedding anniversary was 6 months away. I realized that my doubts had gradually increased over the years to the point that my wife and I would not talk about longer-term goals for our family. Our communication got less and less - and in fact, probably never really was. I looked back over the past ten years and really examined what it was that caused the communication rift. It was my doubts. Plain and simple. I did not want our next ten years to lack this kind of communication.
    • So I began to research ... and here I am.
  • blondie
    blondie

    With me it never was doctrine. It was always "where is the love Christ said would be outstanding amongst his disciples?"

    I went from congregation to congregation, state to state, country to country, and it was always the same: lying, gossiping, backstabbing, hypocrisy, putting on the appearance but not the substance.

    It took me almost 50 years to realize that it wasn't that one apple was rotten, or one tree, but the whole orchard.

    Blondie

  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk

    Ithinkisee,

    Dude. There's no way I can keep up with your lengthy, well-organized, exhaustive list. But I throw my 2 cents in.

    I've always been an avid reader. Intellectual doubts began as soon as I began to read anything not produced by the society. I learned at a young age to bury them.

    In adolescence I began to see Pharisees on all sides.

    When I went to Bethel at 19 I was utterly amazed at how so many (definitely not all) bros and sis were so unfriendly and cold. I now understand that they were just hating life. However at the time this had quite a profound effect on me.

    That's all my short attention span will allow me to post for now. Just wait till I get to the elder stuff + responsibilities at circuit and district levels. As I'm writing this I'm wondering why I didn't get out of there a hell of alot sooner!

    Cool thread.

    Love & respect,

    Nvr

  • Seeker4
    Seeker4

    ithinkisee:

    Nice list, and not far off from my own thoughts. The generation change in the mid-90s was the final straw for me, but I had lots of similar issues like you earlier on.

    Who was your friend in writing? I knew Cyril Chain and Fred Rusk pretty well, a few others marginally. Paul Illingworth, who was a DO I worked closely with. I think Paul left Bethel, sick of the politics.

    Fred called me out of the blue after I'd stopped attending, and I surprised him by saying that I was no longer attending meetings, and explaining that the 1914 generation change had been it for me. It was funny - he didn't try to reason with me, it was more the usual warning about being misled by Satan and trying to get off the phone. I liked Fred, but I think from the Ray Franz's time on, Fred has spent most of his life at Bethel putting out fires - the Franz/Dunlap issues, problems with blood transfusions, 607, etc.

    Good post.

    S4

  • jschwehm
    jschwehm

    For me it was doing research on how the Society came up with the year 1914. Once I realized the shaky foundation of this, then the claims to religious authority that the GB made fell like a house of cards. Not long after I did research on how they came up with the year 1914, they made the change in what the generation of 1914 meant. That was the last straw for me.

    Then, after this, I realized just how academically dishonest and they are. Plus my experiences at Bethel also helped in this regard. I think being at Bethel and seeing how things happen there helped me to see that it was okay to look into the history behind their teachings and the organization.

    Jeff S.

    www.catholicxjw.com

  • zack
    zack

    Ithinkisee:

    Are you and your wife still together?

  • jaguarbass
    jaguarbass

    I was born in 52. I was angry and upset as long as I remember about my mother exposing us to the truth. I couldnt eat chocolate candy because of the lethicin blood additive, I couldnt salute the flag in grade school which made me stand out and be self concious, I couldnt celebrate the holidays in school, I had to go down and sit in the principals office while my classmates had their celebration. On and on. Everything was wrong and bad and from the debil. As I matured I started looking for a loophole to this bastardized life I inherited from my mother. It was 1975. The WatchTower Society put their tit and the ringer and cranked away on that one. Their howling and moaning over that date gave me my freedom. Thank you false prophets. May you burn in hell.

  • PaulJ
    PaulJ

    I realised that the elders just weren't shepherding like they should have.

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex

    The two witness rule regarding child abuse. I realized how insane, and how evil, it is to demand a child produce 2 eywitnesses to their abuse. Add to that the fact that the Society is deliberately obtuse about its application, i.e. does the 2 witnesses include the victim, do they have actually stand and watch the child being raped, etc. told me that the rule is there for the simple reason of keeping the problem quiet. Damn the kids, to hell with the impact of pedophilia, get out there and sell those stupid magazines.

    Mix in some amazing (at the time stunning) cruelty and indifference to the problem and I saw The Truth in a far different, and more accurate, light.

    So I checked out.

  • mcsemike
    mcsemike

    To Ithinkisee:

    Very good points. Especially about "apostates will try to use LOGIC". God forbid we use logic. Didn't they have a book "Make Sure of All Things"?? What the hell was that for if not logic?? Idiots.

    There is no love in the WT as Blondie said. It's politics all the way through. I saw it when they made me a MS and a book study conductor. All the younger brothers were licking my shoes and I HATED it. Sisters quoted elders as if they were apostles. CO's were worshipped and sisters fought to have them over for dinner. I had one sister who was the biggest Pharisee I ever saw. She left a meeting early once to go home and cook the dinner for the CO and his wife. The day after (since I had been a frequent target of her attacks), I took her to task for leaving the meeting to do a "social activity". She didn't like it, but her husband made her admit she was wrong. I lived an hour from Bethel, so we knew many of them and several GB members came and gave talks. I think they saved the paper towels they dried their hands with, they were worshipped so much. It's disgusting.

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