There's Fred pointing out the WTS venom again. Thanx man. We all know it, but loose track sometime.
Whyizit - I think there is a lot here to think about.
Jeff
Experts on 607 BCE--How do you make the point simply and effectively?
by whyizit 34 Replies latest jw friends
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jeanV
Fred, apart from the stereotype sentences typical of those that have weak arguments, do you have any supportive evidence on 607BCE that could possibly help some of us changing our mind?
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greendawn
God carried out his promised retribution against the kings of Babylon after those 70 years, in 539BC. If we add the 70 years to 539BC we come to 609BC which is not the right date for the JWs it is out by two years.
It's revealing how the WTS fiddles around to overcome this problem: they argue that the retribution went on until 537BC now against the king of Persia, in order that they may add the 70 years and come to 607BC to suit their dating. But what on earth does he have to do with the Babylonians, he is their conqueror not their king. It was just Babylon that got punished in 539BC and not (in addition) Persia from 539 to 537BC.
Furthermore, Jer 25: 9,11 & 12
"... and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment
And this whole land shall be a desolation, [and] an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.
And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, [that] I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the LORD, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans"
The 70 years start off with the enslavement of the surrounding area not with the desolation of Jerusalem.
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Fred E Hathaway
Someone from this thread would have to ask Jehovah himself or one of his prophets living today to reveal his timetable to us such that we can all clearly grasp what was intended, methinks.
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Kaput
Fred ----
Have you got a phone # or e-mail address for this Jehovah and/or his prophets? -
SirNose586
Someone from this thread would have to ask Jehovah himself or one of his prophets living today to reveal his timetable to us such that we can all clearly grasp what was intended, methinks.
Or, you can stop trying to make sense of a false date set up by a publishing company in order to give itself authority in the minds of men.
Strange...when you're no longer a captive of a concept, you can analyze historical datum without having to twist it to support the false prophecy of Victorian-minded old men. You don't have to ignore evidence, or contort your mind into knots to reconcile what you see with what you want to believe. To a person who is mentally free, he can look at the line of Neo-Babylonian kings and feel comfort in knowing that all the dates make sense. To a person who is not free, he must fabricate excuses to support a false date. You're clearly not ready for this freedom, Fred. And I feel for you, because I once thought just like you did. If you feel hurt, I understand that too. I didn't want Wonderland to end. I wanted my tract-cover world to make sense. In the end, I knew I could not make any more excuses for the men in Brooklyn. -
jwfacts
As Zico says, ask why Dan 4 is prophetic of the Gentile times.
Every single prophecy in Daniel had only one fulfilment yet the Watchtower claims Daniel 4 should have two fulfilments.
Daniel 2: An immense image representing kingdoms
Daniel 4: Seven times representing Nebuchadnezzar
Daniel 5: Writing on the wall foretelling Babylon’s immediate destruction
Daniel 7: Four beasts being 4 world powers
Daniel 9: Seventy weeks foreshadowing Christ’s arrival
Daniel 11: Kings of the North and South
Why would Daniel 4 have a second fulfilment when all other prophecies had but one fulfilment? Daniel 4 prophesies that Nebuchadnezzar would act as a beast for 7 years. There is nothing about a second fulfilment and it takes a significant imagination to deduce that Daniel 4 points to our time. Is there anything to conclude that there should be a second fulfilment? There is no reference to a second fulfilment, no reference to Gentile times, no reference to the Last Days and no reference to the Israelites.
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heathen
My God everybody would rather argue of the 607 bce date than argue the more obvious stuff such as
1-- You have to believe that Daniel 4 seven times has a second fullfillment
2-- That a prophetic calandar from noahs day is supposed to be used to conclude a year equals 360 days.
3- that you then multiply 360 by 7 and count forward from 607 bce
4- You then have to use the day for year that jacob talked about when he considered the time it took to actually marry the woman he loved .
Now then anybody getting all this?
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Leolaia
At a more basic level, there is the illogic of having a Gentile king (Nebuchadnezzar) represent God's kingdom, such that the incapacitation of this Gentile king represents not incapacitation of Gentile rule, but the very period of Gentile rule itself (2,520 years according to the Society). This becomes even more illogical when one realizes that this incapacitation of God's kingdom on 607 BC (JW chronology) was accomplished by the very same Gentile king (Nebuchadnezzar) who is supposed to represent God's kingdom. Your brain can seriously be turned into knots when you try to think this through.
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Kaput
Your brain can seriously be turned into knots when you try to think this through.
Pretzel logic.