Survey on science, astrology, aliens & article

by Madame Quixote 31 Replies latest social current

  • proplog2
    proplog2

    Terry:

    I suppose you could rank events according to some degree of distance from reality:

    +++ Reality-Plausible-Possible-Impossible- - -

    Reality is something that can be verified by others as a common experience. The more witnesses from a non-homogenous group the more likely a particular event occurred.

    Plausible are the most likely explanations from a list of possible explanations.

    Impossible events are those that are contrary to experience and laws of nature.

    So alien visitation would not be at the top of a list of explanations for some bizarre event - it remains as a possible explanation if the more plausible explanations are eliminated.

    Astrology is against known laws of nature. And it is statistically insignificant.

    Six years ago my neighborhood experienced a very disturbing "jet-like - house shaking- roar that lasted 20 minutes. Others on a SW to NE trajectory experienced the event too.

    So I checked reality. I interviewed neighbors and others along the route. 12 people in five different households experiecned the same "frightening" noise. It was a noise from above but there was no visible source although it moved in a specific direction. The sound went away abruptly after one witness claimed he saw a bright light (as big as a basketball and bright as the sun )shoot over the tree tops.

    I called the police - there were no other reports.

    I called the airport - there were no planes in the area at the time. Division of Noise abatement called and said other than engine testing at the airport (3 miles away) they didn't know what it could be.

    VTOL (Harrier type Jets) were ruled out. To hover with full thrust for such a long time would be impossible.

    Was the government testing out some kind of sound weapon? Decibels are easy to measure - why do it over a major city?

    Was it a blimp with a 1,000 watt output speaker trying to freak us out? Awful risky, probably expensive practical joke.

    Because all of these plausible explanations seemed unlikely - the idea of an extradimenional/extraterrestial cause moves up the list of possibilities.

    It turns out that this particular event (loud roaring noise, sometimes reported to be associated with a huge ship of some sort) has happened close to a hundred times all over the earth.

    On the particular night of this incident it was one of the bussiest nights of UFO sightings based on MUFON reports.

    So what was it. You can't say conclusively. But, I know what 12 people witnessed that night. I know what I witnessed. I feel comfortable with an extra-dimensional/extraterrestial explanation. Does this mean that there certainly was such a cause? No! But it is more plausible than the conspiritorial explanations of "dark government projects". I tend to think more in the direction of an extradimenional source because the idea of traveling long distances from another galaxy seem highly unlikely.

    I am not prepared to believe in Alien Abductions as reported through the intervention of hypnotism. But I am prepared to accept some common explanation for the type of experience I had which was characterized by loud jet sound (squadron of jets at roof top level) lasting more than 5 minutes to as much as 20 minutes. And some type of bright light visual associated with the whole episode.

  • Terry
    Terry
    Extra dimensions are accounted for in string and M-theory. See http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/string_systems_030226.html

    How do I say this?

    Scientists and especially Physicists make a "model" of the universe using mathematics. Unfortunately, ONLY mathematics is the actual representation of their theory in any accurate sense.

    When, on the other hand, we (and they) resort to words to describe what this math is doing a trap is set for us difficult to avoid. That is the trap of METAPHOR.

    Language is only an approximation. It is as good as the concepts formed and the clear definitions which clarify the particulars. Mathematics and language are two sets entirely. Language uses pictures which purport to represent. I'm afraid we easily take these pictures as actualities rather than shadowpuppetry.

    Meaning what? Don't take these DIMENSIONS too seriously as actualities.

    These "dimensions" are a kind of bookkeeping system rather than portals and passageways.

    Math is math and words are words and never the twain shall meet.

    This is how mystics get away with sounding so scientifically informed! The metaphor is disguised as a scientific reality. Mystics stretch explanations into a counterfeit easily assumed to be an actuality.

    I always like to give the example of the word: ENERGY.

    Try defining energy precisely in the scientific sense and then do this. In a Deepak Chopra (or other mystic's) book, wherever the word "energy" is used; substitute the actual definition in its place. Suddenly Chopra's wisdom and insight fall apart into double-talk. He and other mystics are doing a fast shuffle on you by laying cuckoo's eggs in your intellectual nest.

    Beware.

  • Terry
    Terry
    anyway of course aliens can exists (probably they do).

    Proof?

  • trevor
    trevor
    anyway of course aliens can exists (probably they do).
    Proof?

    They have blue bodies and stand with their back to the light. I have seen photos.

  • Terry
    Terry
    It turns out that this particular event (loud roaring noise, sometimes reported to be associated with a huge ship of some sort) has happened close to a hundred times all over the earth.

    I think you've done an excellent job here of presenting your case.

    Our "truth" and sense of "reality" really is on a grey scale from 0........to...........X according to how much data we collect.

    As you have accurately described, when we start eliminating KNOWN possibilites it seems to automatically move the weird possibilities up notch by notch until we are ready to start accepting the absurd.

    However.......

    It is good to remember the past. Ancient people were pretty smart and intellectually sharp. When they experienced something inexplicable by everyday standards; it was common to try and reason out an explanation. From today's perch high above and far removed from those intellectuals---it is easy to laugh at what they came up with!

    Gods, demons, witches, devils, ghosts, elves, fairies, talking animals and spirits were everywhere!! Even today a surprising number of people still avidly believe in these entities (thanks to religion).

    However, it is only because the list of POSSIBLE-TO-CONSIDER explanations is so darned narrow to begin with.

    Take UFO's for an example. A UFO is literally an UNIDENTIFIED flying object. But, does this stop people from calling them flying saucers? No! If it is UNidentified it is unidentified; you don't know what it is because it has no identity other than a seeming flying object. Yet, with great help from sci-fi and piss poor reporting in the media, people make the substitution of an UNKNOWN for a KNOWN. It is sloppy thinking and bad reasoning.

    Urban myths, religious superstitions and the prevalence of charlatans concocting weird tales to embroider a sense of possibility (for gain) make the list of alternative explanations polluted with false options.

    In the final (so far) analysis, there is not a shred of credible proof for aliens. Not any. All we have are stories and personal experiences. Just like the "proof" we have of the golden plates that Joseph Smith used to translate the Book of Mormon with. Just like the "proof" (eyewitness reports) of Jesus appearing or the Virgin Mary or bigfoot, etc.

    You see? The alternative explanations aren't credible or verifiable because they are hearsay in the first instance and there is no better representation of them than pulp magazines and crazies who promote wild stories to sell books, movies and tout radio shows.

    The truth is often mundane and quite disappointing.

  • Terry
    Terry
    They have blue bodies and stand with their back to the light. I have seen photos.

    Oh! Okay, I'm convinced!

  • Clam
    Clam

    I'm an alien and always read these threads with interest. We do exist but I bet you don't take this post as proof. No you want more don't you? Bloody human beings.

  • Terry
    Terry
    I'm an alien and always read these threads with interest. We do exist but I bet you don't take this post as proof. No you want more don't you? Bloody human beings.

    Do you have a greencard??

  • Clam
    Clam
    Do you have a greencard??

    No but I do have a green ass.

  • proplog2
    proplog2

    Terry:

    What would you do if an alien came to you and took you for a spin in his "saucer"? You would have sufficient evidence for YOU to believe in such things. But it still wouldn't be science. There is a certain consensus involved with evidence that can be called "scientific". If you were going to be completely objective you would have to view yourself as having experienced a temporary condition of insanity. In such a case you would be wise to go to your doctor and get an MRI.

    If two people experience the same thing at the same time it would indicate that there is something in the environment that caused the sensory distortions.

    If a crowd of people experience the same thing it would raise suspicions that some sort of mass hysteria took hold.

    If several people in different locations experience the same thing it gives it the credibility of an experience that has been "tested". Each person's report in that kind of situation serves as an independent experiment. At that point you are approaching scientific knowledge. But, that is only the raw data. One still has to reach some kind of conclusion. That is where a lot of "experts" tend to really fall flat. It would be correct to look for the simplest explanation. Many stop there. They don't do an analysis to determine if the simplest explanation is sufficient.

    There ARE quite a few situations like this and the experts declare these "unidentified". There should be another category - "unidentified intelligent". The behavior of the object appears intelligent. When I think about it I believe that IS a category for serious UFO researchers.

    This is different from religious experiences which seem to involve altered mental states. Individuals who jump to the conclusion that "holy spirit" entered them are making a claim that can't be verified to any degree unless it is accompanied by extraordinary evidence - they can now heal everyone they touch, or they can float in the air or walk on water.

    On the other hand the idea that there may be intelligent life with exploratory urges that have taken a peek at what's going on here, is a possibility. There is very little that you can do with such knowledge. At best it should encourage scientists to look for theories of the Universe that might enable such a technology.

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