Assuming the definition of "perfection" to be: "The state of being without a flaw of defect"
Wow! That's totally me!
Question for Believers: How can God be PERFECT?
by kid-A 31 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Elsewhere
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RAF
If he is so objective and loving, why would he have published (or allowed to be published) such a subjective, flawed, confusing, violent, sexist, sexually explicit, and contradictory account of himself in that book?
I think god would have to ba a lot smarter than that; and if he were perfect, he would also be perfectly loving and would not point us to a book that causes so much argumentation, confusion, violence, oppression, and repression among his potential followers.
According to the bible (forget about the JW teaching if possible because it is logically totally messed up) it's not the book which aware you it's the spirit (the holly one ... ... so it's not what is written which count it's is essence about "WHY" and the why is more explicite in the NT) if you stay focus on the bible about the spiritual side you have to read the bible with a new eye - and you'll see that it is related to lots of things from other sources ...
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timetochange
God is "perfectly" suited to be God. He is..that is He exists. He is the great "I Am".
His "perfection" is not measured in human terms if it were He would not be God!
Or do we feel ourselves capable of understanding all unknowns?
Ed.
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zack
A word search for perfection in the WT's own CD library brings up only 10 occurences of the word in all the NWT Bible, none of them with reference to
a freedom from flaw or defect. The context in which it occurs suggests "completeness" as in a flower's blooming in perfection, etc....
The Bible never mentions "perfection" with reference to a state of freedom from sin, either. It is as you said when you started your thread---- a JW
obsession.
As far as God, the WTS seeks to explain Him in terms convenient to their theology, a neat little box where He is easily manipulated, a cage where the
R&F can file past and marvel at the Being in the Box. "He's ours! ALL OUR'S!!!"
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JamesThomas
Perhaps there is That without beginning, and without end. Absolutely infinite, it embraces all -- from what we would judge the most good, to the most vile -- unconditionally.
So then it seems, the endless expression of life and universe is as it should be, and all is perfect in that there is nothing ether good or bad, only thinking makes it so.
j
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Mariusuk.
come on guys this is the same God who
a) Placed irrefutable proof for the Big bang in the very fabric of the universe
b) Placed irrefutable proof for evolution into the genetic structures of life
c) Made numerous outstanding miracles happen in the days when people were......uninformed in the matters of science but not ONE in modern times when the miracle could be assessed, measured, recorded, studied
d) Put a tree in the G of E which produced fruit and told A&E not to eat it, come on....................
I think the evidence points to the distinct possibilty that God is a prank playing pain in the ass, with too much time and power on his/her/it's spiritual hands
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trevor
The concept of God can only be experienced in the mind. Hence this thread is addressed to believers.
If one does not believe then the concept vanishes. Believers can conceive God to be anything they want. If they want him to perfect then he is. What we mean by perfect needs clarifying because perfection is also a concept. But if we are going to believe in God we might as well make him perfect. What one person considers perfect will differ from another - so a perfect God is, like all concepts - subjective.
The Old testament makes the mistake of making him in man’s image with all the accompanying emotions. It wouldn’t have cost the writers any more ink to have made him perfect. In the new testament they attempted to correct this.
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kid-A
"God of course, being Ulitimate Holiness, did not create evil, because in a sense "evil" actually cannot be created. It is the natural consequence of the removal of that which is created, good. This is where semantics breaks down and philosophical concepts become muddied."
Interesting point Moggy. But please answer, how that which cannot be created, ever "exist"? Clearly, evil exists in the moral universe of the christian, muslim, jew, what have you. In that sense, EVIL is either the "nature" or underlying motivation of an "action", or simply a descriptor for a state of affairs (i.e. the present day world, according to the JWs)...
Yes, semantics do break down but semantics ultimately define ones moral compass particularly when one relies upon a "holy text" to define ones moral continuum. In terms of the removal of good equation, could I not just as easily state that "good" is what is left when "evil" is removed? The point is, why should "goodness" be a pre-condition for the existence of evil, given that God essentially "blames the devil" (his own creation BTW) for the emergence of evil upon the earth?
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kid-A
Theology has debated this one throughout history. Perhaps the Gnostic idea of a radical dualism is the most balanced, but it doesn't satisfy our innate desire that the good guy ultimately wins, while acknowledging that we tend to make mistakes. Hence mitigated dualism would perhaps take account of our deficiencies, leading to the acceptance of a correspondingly "bigger and better" deity.
Ross, you theological egg-head! Please expand on these definitions of radical and 'mitigated' dualism....I am completely ignorant.
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kid-A
"The point is that if your attempt is to disprove God's existance with logic there is really no point because God is love and love is not logical."
This is simply a completely circular argument and fails to address any of the questions in the primary post. Regardless of my atheism, the point of the thread is to address the issue as to the possibility of God being "perfect" given his role as "causa sui" of the universe and its contents, including evil.....This really is beyond the question of Gods existence, this is essentially a question directed specifically at believers as to the intrinsic NATURE of Gods essence, if one chooses to believe in said deity.