EXPOSED: THE WT tweaks verses to fit their own agenda.

by pixel 7 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • pixel

    Ok, here's something I noticed when I was in the book study this week, related to the "seven time" prophecy, the verses are Daniel 4:19-32

    Related to the interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar's dream, Daniel wish the dream to apply to those who hate Nebuchadnezzar and the interpretation, to his adversaries. Verse 22 says explicitly that the big tree is him, Nebuchadnezzar. Now, the WT applies this verses to Jehovah and Jesus, when in the Revelation book, page 22, paragraph 3, says: "Daniel described a chopping down of rulership in the line of king David; after "seven time" it would be known "that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind, and that to the one whom he wants to he gives it."

    I don't know from where in the world the WT got that the "chopping down of the tree" represents David's line of kings. For me, this comes just out of the blue. Then it goes on to explain that the first fulfillment of this prophecy came on 607 B.C.E., with the kingdom of Judah and yada yada yada until 1914.

    In the book of Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy, page 87, paragraph 10, chapter 6, it says that the big tree represents Jehovah's sovereignty on the earth, even thou Daniel himself says that the tree represents Nebuchadnezzar and because he got proud of himself, he was about to suffer a humiliation, chopping down the tree (his rulership). In other words, what was a curse to Nebuchadnezzar turned to be a cursed to David's line of king, and the WT explicitly does what Daniel said: applied the interpretation of the dream to Nebuchadnezzar's adversaries, in this case, Jehovah and jesus. (??!!)

    Now, this seems pretty straightforward for me, the big tree is Nebuchadnezzar, and the dream ONLY had a fulfillment when the king was eating like the animals outside of the palace. But this is not true for the average R&F. In the study this week, nobody commented about this, they just read it and that's it. Somebody even commented how this verses applied to Nebuchadnezzar, and not to Jesus' linage as the WT does.

    Am I missing something, or is this thing of the "seven times" as easy as I see it?


  • drew sagan
    drew sagan

    Of course you have the right view on this. The WT position is just made up.

    In other publications they use some scritpures to show that a tree can symbolize rulership, but I can't recall what that is at the moment.

    In any case their position is one of conjecture, not of straight forward understanding.

    If it was, then when Jesus followers asked 'What will be the sign of your return' his repy would have be "Well, you take 607 BCE and......"

    -Drew, of the "connect the invisible dots" class

  • 5go

    What really gets me is that god said davids line would never end. Well it did with his grandson. Which throws this more off because it wasn't till several hundred years later the the kingdom of judah ( Not Israel which ceased and split under his grandson's poor governence ) it's self under a new dynasty finaly ended.

  • truthsetsonefree

    This was one of the thing that first set me against WT. When I read this without any thought given to WTs position, the whole thing with the Gentile Times just fell apart. There is no way to make the connection to anything other than what the text refers to. Namely a vision regarding the Babylonian king. Whether you believe the Bible as true or not.


  • moggy lover
    moggy lover

    In my opinion, the almost fatal flaw in the WT "explanation" of the vision found in Daniel, is their deliberate avoidance of the verse that sums up the vision, vs 28. Dan 4 tells us that Daniel explains Nebuchadnezzar's dream from vss 20 - 27. Did the explanation come to pass? You bet!! Because vs 28 says: "All this befell Nebuchadnezzar the King"

    Now when the text says "all" I assume it means exactly what it says. That everything ever involved in that dream was completely fulfilled. Whatever Daniel's Spirit-inspired explanation was, it was fully, and irrevocably fulfilled in the person of Nebuchadnezzar, and we need seek no further sense to Daniel's meaning.

    But the WTS, evidently exercising some perceived divine prerogative, attempts to further extend the fulfillment to suit their own theological agenda. It is the only case I can think of where an OT prophecy, having been fulfilled in the OT, has another fulfilment, in our time.

    In fact, in chap 9 of the book, "The Bible God's word or man's?" they point to several such prophecies to show the Bible's truthfulness, and in none do they ever attempt to see any further application.

    But in Daniel chap 4 they do see some further, mystical meaning.



  • Woodsman

    Well if you had yourself a false religion that was not even hinted at in the Bible you would have to make up applications of the Bible to you. So all you do is say that a certain verse is what it is but it also has a second meaning. And that second meaning involves us.

  • Justahuman24


    David's line never ended. Just because God didn't allow his grandson and others descendants of David to rule as kings, doesn't mean nor imply David's line ended. His line was alive. They just didn't rule.

    justahuman - but super nonetheless

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    I am not an apologist for the WTS, but this is my understanding of their understanding.

    Nebuchadnezzar's dream was fulfilled in Nebuchadnezzar. What happened to Nebuchadnezzar is the prophecy that gives them the 2520 years. He was down and out for 7 "times", which means 7 lots of 360 days.

    Unfortunately for the WTS, the Babylonians never had a year that was 360 days long.

    How is it possible that the King who destroyed Jerusalem could symbolize God's Kingdom? How is it possible that the King of BABYLON could symbolize GOD's organization?


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