Honeymoon Disfellowshippings

by dozy 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • dozy
    dozy

    One of the anomalies of the disfellowshipping process is the common situation when someone who is “unscripturally divorced” remarries. In these occasions , the instruction is to always disfellowship the individual , regardless of repentance or attitude - what is referred to as a “honeymoon DF” in elder’s jargon. Hence you have the (to me) bizarre situation of privately reproving a child molester , rapist or murderer one week and disfellowshipping a newly remarried middle aged sister who has been divorced for 20 years the next week. Remember - people are not Dfd for actions but for attitude , as one long time CO was keen to point out.

    Elders won't take any action against the remarried one if the one (or more) of the following factors are in place (factor 4 is now inadmissible , but I include it for reference purposes):

    (1) Death of former marriage mate (FMM).

    (2) Proof that FMM has engaged in sex since the divorce (eg has remarried , is known to be in a live-in relationship with another or has confirmed , in writing or in front of two witnesses (eg by phone)) that he / she has recommenced sexual relationships.

    (3) Evidence unearthed that the FMM engaged in adultery during the marriage but that this wasn’t “dealt with judicially” at the time or didn’t come to light until later.

    (4) Evidence that the FMM demanded “unnatural” sex during the marriage (now inadmissible)

    One paradox , often exploited , is that if the divorcee engages in sex during the courtship , then repents and is (often privately) reproved , they can then get remarried without any judicial action whatsoever (as they are free to remarry). Hence , the system actually encourages them to engage in premarital sex - surely not what it was designed to encourage.

    Another paradox is that even if the newly married individual states that he / she will not be engaging in sex with his / her new partner , they are still Dfd. A famous case took place a few years ago in Britain where a long term male divorcee remarried (unscripturally) in his 70’s. He had doctors notes to confirm that he was impotent and both him and his new wife drew up a sworn affidavit legal statement pledging that they would not engage in any form of sexual relationship and would live in separate homes - they simply loved each other and wished to be married. Despite this , following consultation with Bethel , the man was Dfd.

    In another case , a sister wanted to get remarried. Her ex-husband had had a string of affairs since the divorce. But when the elders approached him , he denied any sexual activity , claiming that he had been “as pure as snow” since the divorce. Of course , he was only saying this to take revenge on his wife. The elders knew it but without categorical proof that he was lying (DNA , video evidence etc) they had no choice but to DF the sister following the remarriage.

    Of course , in most cases , the Dfd individual is reinstated in the usual 9 - 12 month time scale. But on what basis are they repentant? Are they sorry to be have been married - if so , surely another divorce (or at least separation) would have ensued as proof of this. Is it not simply the case that disfellowshipping is simply a punishment in these situations? In most cases , it is simply that the remarried one has been regular at meetings during the shunning process that “proves” a good attitude. The fact that they were regular at meetings , regular on the ministry and exemplary before the wedding is not held as proof of a good attitude. Confused?

    Any comments - maybe from elders / ex-elders with experience of these cases , or those who have been through this judicial process…

  • Crumpet
    Crumpet
    Another paradox is that even if the newly married individual states that he / she will not be engaging in sex with his / her new partner , they are still Dfd. A famous case took place a few years ago in Britain where a long term male divorcee remarried (unscripturally) in his 70’s. He had doctors notes to confirm that he was impotent and both him and his new wife drew up a sworn affidavit legal statement pledging that they would not engage in any form of sexual relationship and would live in separate homes - they simply loved each other and wished to be married. Despite this , following consultation with Bethel , the man was Dfd.

    Well firstly that is utterly disgraceful!

    I have pondered that same question myself. When I applied for reinstatement I had to prove that I no longer practiced any of the things I was disfellowshipped for - I have to say the action and the attitude were never particularly separated in any of my dfings.

    So when you are dfed for a re-marriage which is unscriptural - how can you ever get reinstated unless you separate as you are continuing to practice the sin? Yet another example of where their stupid rules dont hold up to daylight!

  • Junction-Guy
    Junction-Guy

    It looks to me like situation #1 wouldnt allow for any judicial action as the FMM has died, thus releasing this individual to remarry. What could he be reproved for in this instance?---------- Yeah I see alot of hypocrisy in the whole thing, JW's say they only go by the bible, but stuff like this proves otherwise. They are a manipulative cult, who do things to their advantage and public image is their utmost concern.

  • dozy
    dozy
    It looks to me like situation #1 wouldnt allow for any judicial action as the FMM has died, thus releasing this individual to remarry. What could he be reproved for in this instance?

    Sorry - I've amended my original post to clear this up.

  • tijkmo
    tijkmo
    . Remember - people are not Dfd for actions but for attitude , as one long time CO was keen to point out.

    hey start the week with a joke...what a good idea....roflmao

    obviously the direction to df is to send a message to the rest of the org that such action is unacceptable...i knew of a case where a scripturally divorced sis was getting married and the week of her wedding her ex-husband lyingly told the elders that the divorce was not scriptural...she was told by the elders that she couldnt get married....but she did...so they df-ed her.

    interestingly they did not df her new husband

    so now two people who had not manipulated not conspired not lied ...and who were just setting off on married life as a couple who wanted to serve jehovah together..are now not even allowed to study together or go in ministry or pray or read the bible..for those of you thinking well thats a good thing , it is not..

    and all because the elders believed lies from a vindictive ex who had been the cause of the divorce in the first place..and were of the opinion that the sis doing as they directed her would all somehow work out in the long run.

    so what kind of a message that this send...the org must surely be of the opinion that if they do not punish these 'transgressors' then every tom dick harry from publisher to gb member would follow their example and start divorcing their spouses and getting new ones.

    can you say..."love..believes all things"

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    It is a disgracefully legalistic/mechanistic religion, the kind of minor detail they will go into is astonishing. Why don't they leave people in peace to remarry after a failed marriage rather than suffer from loneliness and frustration?

  • zack
    zack

    The JW's cite Jesus own words for the justification of their policy. Jesus, however, was engaged in ebutting and exposing the

    hypocrisy of a Jewish sect of his time who treated their wives with "treachery" and would leave them homeless, penniless, and

    in shame in their middle age. I for one NEVER believed that Jesus meant for couples who simply could not stay together

    for whatever reason, to remain in a state of misery. The marriage contract is between two people. The same two people can

    void the contract if that desire is mutual. Protections exist legally for both if that is the case. The JW legalism is both petty and

    cruel.

    But wait, these are God's CHOSEN PEOPLE!

  • mia_b
    mia_b

    A lovely sister in my cong stuck with her physically abusive da'd husband. He eventually stabbed her to death.

    Its such a lovely religion that allows you to get beaten and not have a spripural divorce!

  • helncon
    helncon

    This is the kind of information that i have been searching for!

    But as i suspect that my dad only recieved a private reproof on being slightly naughty (no sex) would this in turn give him a scriptural divorce?

    So would this mean that he still could get DF?

    This is all very interesting information.

  • NewYork44M
    NewYork44M
    (4) Evidence that the FMM demanded “unnatural” sex during the marriage (now inadmissible)

    When did this become inadmissible? As an elder, I was aware that my fellow elders allowed a sister to get re-marry using this defense. This was circa 1995.

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