Great Crowd Appeared in 1930's........or did it?

by drew sagan 25 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  cyberguy

  TD,

  From what I recall, you are correct in stating that they believed the Great Tribulation had already begun and they were living through it! However, if I’m not mistaken, they changed this view circa 1962-1964. Not that this is a big deal, but they preached it had began in 1914. I was a young boy in the 1960’s when the change was made, and I recall two pioneer sisters (old-timers) coming over the house and explaining to my mom what she missed by not attending the DC (my dad would not allow us to attend). The two sisters were shaken by the change! I guess at the time, it was as monumental as the more recent “generation” change.

  With kindly regards,

  Cyber
• 

  heathen

  JWs clearly say in their new 'Bible Teach' book

  When was that one written? , don't think I've ever seen it . I've seen of alot of dogma that includes the belief that people will be judged as to how they treated the 144k as jesus said that which they do unto them is the same as doing it to hiself and the part about the righteous on his right hand and the unrighteous on his left where he says that if you hadn't fed ,clothed and visited his brothers in prison then you go off into everlasting destruction. In the j-dub mind the important thing is that you show Jehovah that you have integrity thru your trials in this life so that you are prepared for the next world being able to follow instructions . The Nazi guard would most likely have a much more difficult time meeting the ideal citizen requirements . It's apparent they do have free will once again after the millenial reign and satan is let loose again. They do have some very strange dogma about the condition of the resurrected , such as the belief that old people will be braught back as they were and over time become the perfect age and that people that sin will eventually grow old and die again . Something I don't remember seeing in the bible .

  This stuff I do find kinda interesting because they hope nobody really notices the changes they make . It's not like there's a trumpet blast and then an announcement of the amendments they make.
• 

  TD

  Heathen,

  The "Bible Teach" book is fairly new, (2005) but what it says is not new

  JW literature has described this concept many times:

  We note that this judgment is placed in the Bible in the account of events occurring during Christ’s Thousand Year Reign with his associate kings and priests. These, the apostle Paul said, "will judge the world." (1Co 6:2) "The great and the small," persons from all walks of life, will be there, to be judged impartially. They are "judged out of those things written in the scrolls" that will be opened then. This could not mean the record of their past lives nor a set of rules that judges them on the basis of their past lives. For since "the wages sin pays is death," these by their death have received the wages of their sin in the past. (Ro 6:7, 23) Now they are resurrected that they might demonstrate their attitude toward God and whether they wish to take hold of the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ that was given for all. (Mt 20:28; Joh 3:16) Though their past sins are not accounted to them, they need the ransom to lift them up to perfection. They must make their minds over from their former way of life and thought in harmony with God’s will and regulations for the earth and its population. Accordingly, "the scrolls" evidently set forth the will and law of God for them during that Judgment Day, their faith and their obedience to these things being the basis for judgment and for writing their names indelibly, at last, into "the scroll of life." Insight Volume II p.788

  What

  is the meaning of John5:28,29? It says: "All those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment." What Jesus said here must be understood in the light of the later revelation that he gave to John. (See Revelation 20:12, 13, quoted on page 337.) Both those who formerly did good things and those who formerly practiced bad things will be "judged individually according to their deeds." What deeds? If we were to take the view that people were going to be condemned on the basis of deeds in their past life, that would be inconsistent with Romans 6:7: "He who has died has been acquitted from his sin." It would also be unreasonable to resurrect people simply for them to be destroyed. So, at John 5:28, 29a, Jesus was pointing ahead to the resurrection; then, in the remainder of verse 29, he was expressing the outcome after they had been uplifted to human perfection and been put on judgment. Reasoning p.338

  12

  In describing the situation on Judgment Day, Jesus said: "Those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrectionoflife, those who practiced vile things to a resurrectionofjudgment. . . . just as I hear, I judge; and the judgment that I render is righteous, because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him that sent me." (John 5:28-30) What is this "resurrectionoflife," and what is the "resurrectionofjudgment"? And who receive them? 13 We have clearly seen that when the dead come forth from the grave, they are not judged by their past deeds. Rather, they are judged on the basis of what they do during Judgment Day. So when Jesus mentioned "those who did good things" and "those who practiced vile things," he was referring to the good things and bad things that they would do duringJudgmentDay. Because of the good things they do, many of those resurrected will progress to human perfection by the end of the 1,000-year Judgment Day. Thus their return from the dead will prove to be a "resurrection of life," for they will attain to perfectlife without sin. Live Forever p. 180
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  heathen

  no I haven't seen it but have read the live forever book . Revelation does not say anybody is resurrected during the millenial reign in fact it states that the second resurrection takes place after the millenial reign . Revs 20:5 There is none of this proving yourself righteous during the millenial reign , a complete load of bunk there but probly after that there is, since the devil is let lose and does control the world a second time then they are destroyed for all time .
• 

  Quandry

  I always remember being taught that even though the book of Revelation says that the dead do not come to life until after the thousand years, the WTS said this meant that they did not come to life "in the fullest sense of the word" until after they had come to perfection--after the thousand years of applying the ransom had made them perfect.

  Is all of this just a mass of confusion to others like it is to me now? I was "in the truth" for over thirty years, being baptized in 1973. and I never knew that at one time they had taught that the tribulation began in 1914 but was "cut short" for the holy ones.

  New light, new light, new light...................How does confusion grow when the light keeps getting brighter?

  Yes, I used to wonder how the "great crowd" was told in 1935 that they would survive the big A and now many are already dead. I never asked the question out loud, though.
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  heathen

  the WTS said this meant that they did not come to life "in the fullest sense of the word"

  Now that is a new one on me . That sounds totally absurd to me .