by RULES & REGULATIONS 26 Replies latest jw friends
". . . having children in subjection with all seriousness; 5 (if indeed any man does not know how to preside over his own household, how will he take care of God’s congregation . . ."
Indeed, that's what made my dad step down, with my mom's urging; at least she thought it was because of her that he stepped down.
What a bunch of silly, control-freak cultish crap! Hope you can get out of it.
I just read some very, very sad stories on this thread. It is clear that in order for anyone to maintain "good standing" - elder or not - they must maintain a perfect -looking cookie cutter jw life. It is just impossible for that to happen.
so sad for people when they finally realize their work as elders, pioneers, active publishers means nothing if someone in their family misbehaves; they get marked or asked to step down or told they're not publisher material or whatever.
I hear this story over and over and over and over with Jws. It is just so very profoundly sad and angering. And they say they're so full of love - totally conditional love, if you want to call it that. What other name is there for it - emotional and psychic blackmail?
It all depends on the BOE and the CO and the congregation perception.
I have known elders who had wives that were not nor had never been JWs.
Does that mean the wives were favorable but not baptized?
** w91 11/15 p. 17 par. 16 Cultivating the Fruit of Self-Control ***
To illustrate: There was an elder who had a very ill-tempered unbelieving wife. Yet, he exercised self-control, and this benefited him so much that his doctor told him: "John, either you are by nature a very, very patient man or else you have a powerful religion." We do indeed have a powerful religion, for "God gave us not a spirit of cowardice, but that of power and of love and of soundness of mind," enabling us to exercise self-control.
Also, if the BOE believes and presents a compelling explanation to the CO, that the elder had done everything possible to help an erring minor child, it would not necessarily be automatic that the elder would be removed. It really is a popularity contest and sometimes financial influence is present.
*** w96 10/15 p. 21 par. 7 Father and Elder—Fulfilling Both Roles ***
When a son or a daughter reaches the age of responsibility, he or she must make a personal decision with regard to dedication and baptism. If an elder has clearly given needed spiritual help, guidance, and discipline, yet the youth does not choose to serve Jehovah, the father is not automatically disqualified from serving as an overseer.
On the other hand, if an elder has several minor children living at home who, one after the other, become spiritually sick and get into trouble, he might no longer be considered to be "a man presiding over his own household in a fine manner." (1 Timothy 3:4) The point is, it should be manifestthat an overseer is doing his best to have ‘believing children that are not under a charge of debauchery nor unruly.’
If his fellow elders and the members of the congregation can see that he is doing all that the law allows him to do to instruct his children properly in the way of the truth, he will not be disqualified as an overseer.
Or one of his children may become guilty of serious sin, though the others are doing well spiritually. Still, if the man has done all that can be expected, and especially if he has had spiritual success with others in his household, rejection of his fine direction by one family member would not necessarily disqualify him from being a ministerial servant or an elder.
*** w84 5/15 pp. 30-31 Questions From Readers ***
If the child of a congregation elder is guilty of serious wrongdoing, does that automatically disqualify the father from being an elder?
A brother is not ‘automatically disqualified’ from serving as an elder if his minor son or daughter has some serious difficulty. All the factors involved need to be considered in determining whether he qualifies.
Titus 1:6 says that an elder should be "free from accusation," "having believing children that were not under a charge of debauchery nor unruly." (Compare 1 Timothy 3:4.) Jehovah’s Witnesses hold to that standard.
Accordingly, TheWatchtower of September 1, 1983, made the point that an elder needs to put forth balanced effort to provide for the emotional and spiritual needs of his family, his wife and any children that they have. A man’s being negligent in this regard would likely have a detrimental effect on them. When a child’s spiritual and disciplinary needs are not cared for, he or she may fail to progress spiritually and may get involved in serious wrongdoing. This would disqualify the negligent father from serving the congregation as an appointed elder, for, as 1 Timothy 3:5 says: "If indeed any man does not know how to preside over his own household, how will he take care of God’s congregation?"
A lengthier discussion of this is found on pages 31, 32 of TheWatchtower of February 1, 1978. It showed why all the factors involved must be considered. For example, one elder regularly studied the Bible with his five children, shared in recreation, took them to Christian meetings and in other normal ways strove to fulfill his responsibilities as a Christian father. Four of the children did very well, but one son constantly was a problem, in time succumbing to sin. That would not necessarily disqualify the father from being an elder if he still had the congregation’s respect.
The congregation may know that a brother did all that reasonably might be expected of a Christian father in caring for his family, whether he had one child or many. So if a child went bad, they may not feel that this was the father’s fault. They may appreciate that the deflections of Judas Iscariot and the angel who became Satan are not to be blamed on Jesus or Jehovah. It is vital that a brother serving as an elder continue to have the high respect of the congregation so that all can accept his Bible-based counsel and, having observed how his general conduct turns out, can imitate his faith.—Hebrews 13:7.
Questions From Readers (2/1/78)
If children in the household of elders or ministerial servants come under a "charge of debauchery," what determines whether the family head can continue to serve the congregation in an appointed capacity?
The Scriptures are very clear that married men serving in the congregation should be exemplary family heads. We read: "The overseer should therefore be . . . a man presiding over his own household in a fine manner, having children in subjection with all seriousness; (if indeed any man does not know how to preside over his own household, how will he take care of God’s congregation?)." (1 Tim. 3:2, 4, 5) "Let ministerial servants be husbands of one wife, presiding in a fine manner over children and their own households."—1 Tim. 3:12.
The congregation rightly expects elders, ministerial servants and their families to be fine examples in Christian living. (Compare 1 Timothy 4:12; 1 Peter 5:3.) If that should cease to be the case, this can have a damaging effect on the spiritual welfare of the congregation. For example, if the children of elders and ministerial servants are lax about applying Scriptural principles, this can embolden other children in the congregation to do likewise and to excuse their wrong conduct. (Compare 1 Corinthians 8:9-13; 10:31, 32.) The situation becomes even more serious when children of elders and ministerial servants engage in gross wrongdoing.
So, when such children bring disgrace upon the family and the congregation, the body of elders should determine whether the father qualifies to continue serving as an elder or as a ministerial servant. His feeling personally that he qualifies to serve despite developments in his household should not determine the decision reached by the body of elders.
For a man to continue serving, there should be clear evidence that he is capable of giving needed spiritual help to his household and that he has not been seriously negligent in this regard. An alert father usually can detect problems in his family before they get out of hand. As a man who knows how to preside over his household, he is able to take steps to control undesirable situations in his family. While his children may commit wrongs, he should be able to give them the needed guidance and discipline so that they do not become ‘debauched’ persons.—Titus 1:6.
Of course, there may be times when a child departs from the way of the truth or slips into wrongdoing despite a father’s commendable efforts to help the family spiritually. His other children may well be fine examples in Christian living, testifying to their having received good parental training. On the other hand, if one minor child after another when residing at home gets into deep spiritual difficulty upon reaching a certain age, and brings reproach on the family and the congregation, there is serious question as to whether the father is ‘presiding over his household in a fine way.’ Care must then be exercised not to excuse the situation simply by pointing to Scriptural examples of those who did not turn out well, including Esau, the sons of Samuel and the like. (Gen. 25:27-34; 26:34, 35; 1 Sam. 8:2, 3, 5) It should be kept in mind that most of those referred to in the Bible as going astray were adults, fully capable of making their own decisions. They were not subject to the same kind of authority and guidance as are minor children in a household, and it is such ones we are here considering.
In view of the spiritual danger that can result to the congregation when the children of elders or ministerial servants engage in wrongdoing that is truly gross, men whose children are involved should cooperate fully with the body of elders in ascertaining the facts. They should not minimize such gross wrongdoing of their children or try to conceal it so as to retain their position. Also, they should avoid undue harshness toward the children. (Eph. 6:4) These fathers should be sincerely interested in helping their wayward children spiritually to the extent circumstances allow. Of first concern should be the spiritualconditionoftheirfamily and not whether they can continue serving in an appointed capacity.—Compare 1 Timothy 5:8.
Hence, if gross wrongdoing by children in the household does raise serious questions in the congregation about a man’s presiding in a fine way over his family, he should not continue serving as an elder or as a ministerial servant. When the man serves as an elder and his fellow elders allow their judgment and decision to be swayed by friendship or sentimentality to the point of sidestepping Scriptural principles, then especially can his continuing to serve as an elder, though unqualified, be spiritually hurtful to the congregation. This is because it can undermine respect for the entire body of elders. It can provide an excuse for other children in the congregation to engage in wrongdoing. So, it is good to keep in mind that the man’s abilities as a speaker or an organizer or his likable personality are really not the point at issue. The determining factor is whether he is fulfilling his role as a father in a fine way. Onlyifheis may he continue to serve. Of course, when that is so, the body of elders should avoid being unduly critical and faultfinding in reviewing his family situation.
Seems to me it is the "reverse original sin" doctrin. You inherit badness from your kids! Wonder how many privledges Adam has lost over the years..... carmel
I REALLY APPRECIATE "UNDERCOVER'S" COMMENT, WHEN I WAS TRYING TO GET REINSTATED 2 YEARS AGO, I WENT TO MOST OF THE MEETINGS FOR 3 YEARS, WENT TO THE CONVENTIONS, SPECIAL ASSEMBLY DAYS, ETC...AND THE 3 ELDRES WHO WERE IN CHARGE OF MY JUDICIAL COMMITTEE WERE THE 3 TOP DOGS, THEY WERE RELENTLESS WITH ME, THEY KEPT REFUSING TO REINSTATE ME, GIVING ME LAME EXCUSES LIKE, "YOUR NOT REPENTANT YET", "YOU NEED MORE TIME", ETC...FUNNY THING, ALOT OF THE PEOPLE IN THE CONGREGATION WERE GETTING UPSET THAT THEY WERE TREATING ME THIS WAY, MY WIFE WASNT DF'D SO SHE GOT WIND OF HOW RESTLESS THE CONG WAS GETTING, I EVEN WROTE TO THE TRAVELING OVERSEER ABOUT THESE 3 ELDERS WHO HATED ME, TO NO AVAIL! UNBELIEVEABLE HOW MUCH POWER 3 MEN CAN HAVE OVER A CONG! IM GLAD THIS HAPPENED AS IT OPENED MY EYES AND MY WIFES TOO! SHE DISASSIATED HERSELF LAST JANUARY AND WE ARE DOING GREAT!
The scripture used in the beginning of the thread is a good one. After all, if you are a Christian you expect those taking the lead to have
developed Christian qualites in order to be more stable in their faith and not easily blown about by every different teaching, temptation,
etc.... Any man who ministers takes on himself a heavy responsibility. What the Watchtower does, however, is impose IT'S OWN rules
on men who wish to minister, and they are by their very nature capricious and arbitrary. Christianity is far more loving and nurturing
than what the WTS espouses. Further, and I don't want to debate Paul's inspiration, but Paul (for a man that didn't want
rules imposed on Gentiles by Judaizers) had LOTS of opinions that he freely offered to the brethren who
later took those opinions as Church Law.
What Blondie posted is the way it works. When you are a member of the good ole' boys club, your in . If your not, your out. They can find any reason to keep you or push you out.
Blueblades
