The wages of sin

by oldflame 13 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Borgia

    You may be also interestwd in the following questions:

    -Did angels who in the preflood era can to earth, commit sin?
    -Did Satan when he rebelled, commit sin?
    -If yes, why did they not die?
    -Why was it necesary for God to have an object or symbol of sin in the world?


  • the sage
    the sage


    Good questions!

    I'll share my research with you. Others no doubt have come to different conclusions. 1Pet.3:15.

    --Did Angels who came to earth sin?

    Apparently, 2Pet.2:4 says: "God did not hold back from punshing the Angels that sinned--but--throwing them into--pits--of darkness reserved for judgement.

    --Did Satan when he rebeled commit sin?

    Scripture says: 1John3:8. "The Devil has been sinning from the beginning--the son of man--(will)-- break up the works of the Devil", with the fulfilment of Rev.20:10.

    --Why did they not die?

    "One day is with Jehovah as a thousand years" 2Pet.3:8. In the day that Adam ate of the fruit he began to die. "Adam lived nine-hundred and thirty years and he died". Gen.5:5. The Devil and the wicked Angels is future. Rev.20:10.

    --Why was it necessary for God to have an object or symbol of sin in the world?

    The creature man, God made "according to his likeness" Gen.1:26. Obviously a higher form of life than the animals. However that would be decided by a test. How would they be different than the animal creatures? Some men would apparently "be like unreasoning animals naturally to be caught and destroyed" 2Pet.2:12.

    The tree of the knowledge of good and evil would determine their willingness to follow the instruction of God. They had only one law to obey, Shouldn't have been a problem. However they chose to decide for themselves what was right and not obey Jehovah's rule of law. Gen.3:17-19.

    The Sage!

  • Borgia


    Interesting answers, too.

    If death is caused automatically by sin,.......why is it that Satan & the demons have to be put to death?
    What is it then that made the difference for us humans?
    Why did we need a test in the first place? Although simple by the looks of it, however, without it there would have
    been no obvious reason to deviate.
    As Paul so eloquently has put it:

    ...because due to works of law no flesh will be declared righteous
    Therefore by works of law no flesh will be declared righteous before him, for by law is the accurate knowledge of sin
    It could be held that the first law men were under was: not to eat.
    Therefore: because they ate, they sinned and caused death, no?

    What was Satans sin? What law did he break to have caused death?
    The Demons, who mingled with men: it is said that the lot of them went back to heaven and lived happily ever after.
    Since S&D are still alive and kicking........and have to be put to death, would you say they suffer the same ailments as we humans?

    And now to somethng completely different:
    If you want to answer these questions I am sure you will be aware of the pasages where Jude and James wrote about these heavenly states
    they quoted from some dark jewish writings which of course are not be found in todays canon. If they quoted from the sources we have now available,
    I am inclined to say that homer did a far better job at telling tales about heavenly things than the writers of those sources did.
    The same goes for the things written down in the letters of Peter on this topic, so perfectly quoted by you.

    The fact that Peter says they are punished by God with darkness is of interest.

    *** w03 12/15 p. 28 Questions From Readers *** It must be stressed that even before that, when the wicked angels still had access to heaven, they were outcasts from God’s family and under definite
    restrictions. For instance, Jude 6 reveals that already in the first century C.E., they were “reserved with eternal bonds under dense [spiritual] darkness
    for the judgment of the great day.” Likewise, 2 Peter 2:4 says: “God did not hold back from punishing the angels that sinned, but, by throwing them into
    Tartarus [a state of utter debasement], delivered them to pits of dense [spiritual] darkness to be reserved for judgment.”
    Please note how it has been turned into spiritual darkness.......a place where 6 billion other humans are as well.

    (Mark of the beast 666 / 616 suggests Revelation predates 70. If that can be accepted as established the comments made by John, Peter, Paul, Jude and James
    are perfectly sound (although it does not corroborate in the present))

    1)The thousand years as one day text, has all to often been used in a very literal sense, with consequences, I might add.
    The simplest explanation is that he meant a long time, longer than any of us can really fathom because it is more than 10 times
    our natural life when all our improtance has gone to dust......
    2)Of Adam it is said he dyingly died. Could you please, provide scripture where it is said of S & D? As I stated: they need to be

    put to death which is a totally different concept..... 3) future? well compare that with Rom 16:20 and please, notice the "shortly" bit.....I am sure that
    accounts for the 2000 years since....

    Since the story is about knowledge, you could also say: they suddenly became aware of things......
    It is perfectly understable that although bible based religion has had it´s mouth full of acurate knowledge,
    it was never meant to be.....knowledge is detestable. The Gods have tried to hide knowledge from us humans. Why
    else would you punish someone to go through horrific torments on a daily basis for only revealing the secret of...
    FIRE Seems the A & E story coincides very well with the story of IO and Prometheus.



  • the sage
    the sage


    I'm only calling this the way I see it from scripture. Time will confirm its correctness.

    ---Adam and Eve, satan and the demons did not follow Gods instruction, which would have allowed them to continue living. Satan became a manslayer. Sin, (error), brought death to mankind. Gen.3:15-20; James1:14-15: 1John3:8; John8:44; Rev.20:10.

    ---The test in Eden would demonstrate man's willingness to follow God's direction which would allow them to keep on living. God is the dispenser of everlasting life. God's rule of law would apply to all creation including satan and the demons.

    ---Yes, I agree with your observation as to the spiritual darkness of the 6 billion human's in the general population of the world. The promise is the light will get brighter. This is happening in our generation. The great expose' of false religion, politics and commerce is now. Look at this forum and other groups along with whistle blowers exposing corruption. They have been invited to the great evening meal of God to eat up the carcass of the wild beastly tainted rulling eliment of this world, allowing mankind to recognize truth. Rev.16:15; 19:17-21; 1John5:19; Pro.4:18; Dan.12:2-4.

    ---I also agree the book of Revelation is symbolic. The thousand years is 10 raised to the 10th degree, meaning complete. Ten in scripture represents completeness.

    ---And yes, its true understanding of why God's promised kingdom has delayed has been hidden from mankind. It becomes obvious that Jehovah has a timetable in which to complete his purpose. The time is said to be when "He hands over the kingdom to his God and Father---and brought to nothing all governments and authority and power---when he has put all enemies under his feet. 1Cor.15:24-28; Eph.3:9-13; 1The.5:1-11; 1Tim6:14-16.; Hab.2:3.

    The Sage!

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