by oldflame 13 Replies latest watchtower bible
I had a heavy thought the other day in a discussion with some friends. The question was this. If the wages of sin is death for humans then why do animals die ? Did the animals recieve this punishment because of humans doing ? Because according to my understanding there was no death until sin. I always thought that animals are sinless in Gods eyes so why are they punished with the same as humans ?
Can I get some answers on this or even your thoughts.
Oldflame (Merrill)
To resume :
We are in the same systems (the kids, the animals)
according to the bible to me this life is a demonstration (not really a test - as God/Christ is supposed to know already) otherwise anyone would be able to say No I'm not like that (prove it to me) so it doesn't work like that.
About animals they're ways are a part of the demonstration about how they can do worst or better than human. We learned a lot from them (good and bad) in knowing that they only use their instinct and primal and sometimes very efficient inteligence in some matter.
22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[b] Christ Jesus our Lord.
The wages sin pays do not result in physical death. Sinning leads to spiritual death. Note how sin is contrasted to holiness in the previous verse.
22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
We, just as the animals, have a built-in time limit. Where does it say Adam and Even were created "perfect?" They supposedly could live forever only if they ate from the tree of life. How come God put it there, and later blocked them from it, if they were designed to live forever anyway?
And while Jesus was free from sin (holy), he was still a human who did not eat from the tree of life. So, if he hadn't been murdered, I believe he would have aged and died just as any other human, animal or plant.
~Sue
Merril:
Well, my thoughts for that they're worth are that everything dies and cycles.
If the statement "the wages of sin are death" is accurate, then I think it refers to the spiritual life of an individual, not the mortal, physical life. Conversely resurrection/regeneration, etc. is also spiritual, though we still eventually depart the body.
Could it not have been because Adam lost his ability to be an effective caretaker of the garden, the fish of the sea, the flying creatures and every living thing moving upon the earth. Gen,1:28.
I made this comment on another post under 'friends', Febr. 7th subject law of gravity.
The Sage!
Could have a point there. I can see the scene now:
Adam struggling valiantly against the flying spaghetti monster...
...Eve calls him in for dinner...
...and he falls over his big feet in a drunken, Cider-filled heap.
Ergo sin and death enters the world through every orifice!
This issue is close to my heart. Through the Bible animals suffer as a direct effect of man's sin. God's original plan;
Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Man was allowed to eat meat but we really don't know why. There are theories; that man would not live as long as he was pre flood, and others. It came with a curse;
Genesis 9:2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.
Israels stubborn rebellion against God causes suffering to animals and God show's His concern through the prophet;
Jeremiah 12:4 How long shall the land mourn, and the herbs of the whole country wither? for the wickedness of those who dwell therein, the animals are consumed, and the birds; because they said, He shall not see our latter end.
Hosea's beautiful dipiction of God's love for us includes animals in the eternal covenant;
Hosea 2:18 In that day I will make a covenant for them with the animals of the field, And with the birds of the sky, And with the creeping things of the ground. I will break the bow, the sword, and the battle out of the land, And will make them lie down safely.
This was the result again of Israels sin;
Joel 1:18 How the animals groan! The herds of cattle are perplexed, because they have no pasture. Yes, the flocks of sheep are made desolate.
The wages of man's sin runs deep and nothing has changed in thousands of years, it only gets worse. Now we have millions of animals suffering from birth to slaughter to feed man's insatiable desire for flesh.
(go vegan)
Agree with your comments, Apostate Kate!
Is there then, not the possibility that when all is right, and mankind fulfills his assignment with all creatures in subjection,(Gen.1:28) that the death of animals will not continue? Isa.65:25. The wolf and the lamb themselves will feed as one, and the lion will eat straw just like the bull, and as for the serpent, his food will be dust. They will do no harm nor cause any ruin in all my holy mountain, Jehovah has said."
The Sage!
The wolf and the lamb themselves will feed as one, and the lion will eat straw just like the bull, and as for the serpent, his food will be dust. They will do no harm nor cause any ruin in all my holy mountain, Jehovah has sa
With this statement from scriptures can we assume then that the animals will also gain the same promise given to us in Christ ?
And if the wages of sin is a spiritual death then can we assume we are all doomed ? We all sin. Oh yeah thats where the Christ comes in but this still does not leave any answer about all the critters in the world.
Terry, You make me laugh bud....
We, just as the animals, have a built-in time limit. Where does it say Adam and Even were created "perfect?" They supposedly could live forever only if they ate from the tree of life. How come God put it there, and later blocked them from it, if they were designed to live forever anyway?
And while Jesus was free from sin (holy), he was still a human who did not eat from the tree of life. So, if he hadn't been murdered, I believe he would have aged and died just as any other human, animal or plant.
~Sue
That's a neat line of reasoning, Sue, and it makes sense.
