by DeusMauzzim 9 Replies latest jw friends
Do you still believe that YHWH from the Old Testament is a god of love?
What is your opinion about the Jesus of the New Testament?
I'm not asking if you believe they exist(ed)... just a character analysis based on what you read in the bible.
Regards,
Deus Mauzzim.
The god of the old testament, Jehovah, that I was taught about by JWs was full of hate and vengeance, very much like the WTBTS
Jesus as taught by JWs has no personality and must always submit to the faithful and discreet slave class. He is very insecure and not a true leader at all.
I do believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ because they work imo - am making my way through the gospel of Thomas and find that very enlightening. However I understand that the gospel of thomas isn't part of the bible, so have to admit I don't read the bible anymore.
I do believe that Jehovah is a God of love, the things requiried in the OT from God had a reason for His will, I dont claim to understand it all nor will I, however I realize that it probably had to do with making sure the Messiah was untainted by the world then. He is the God who made the sacrifice available for us. He is a God of love from His creation and the things He provides daily.
Jesus is also a very selfless, sacrificing and giving person as he paid the ultimate for us. I find in his personality the personality of his Father, there are things that we cannot understand now, but what I do understand is that I am a sinner and they made the possibility for me to have eternal life through their efforts and not mine.
abr
I don't quite understand how Christ dying was so much different from the billions of humans who have died.
as he paid the ultimate for us
Why doesn't the billions who die as a result of sin count at all?
If God is as loving as he is described and Christ has already paid the price why do we keep dying like we always did? And why did God require a human sacrifice like most of the pagan gods before he could forgive humans who had nothing to do with eating a bite of fruit?
I can understand why faith is necessary now, why we must beleive something we can't see, smell, touch or prove beyound what some human wrote thousands of years ago and nothing has happened since.
Christ love brought about breaking up of families, followers being killed, non-followers being killed during the crusades. I do think his explaining how we should treat fellow humans makes sense and if followed would change life on this earth.
Ken P.
Based purely on reading the bible while trying to ignore WT influence (which after almost 40 yrs is tough) I came to the conclusion that Jehovah of the OT is in fact a loving god to people he choose's to be namely the israelites. However he encouraged the slaughter of countless innocent "pagans".
As for Jesus... honestly Jesus is god almighty. The tetragrammaton isn't found much in the NT because its there in the meaning of Jesus name "YHVH is salvation". This point though I still go back and forth about though since the WT's argument for Jesus being only the son is logical but only up to the point where you realize that they changed the meaning of some scriptures by adding words such as [other] , a god, etc. when referring to Jesus. Also they aren't consistent with their translation of the greek word for lord to Jehovah in the NT as they leave it out in a few places where it the context refers to Jesus. Its all very confusing but I tend to believe that the WT is trying to cover something up to protect their doctrines. Somethings fishy..
The God of the OT was a vengeful God, merciful only when the isrealites were worshipping him excactly as he dictated.
While I guess a God would have the right to dictate how he wants to be worshipped, seems kind of childish...I want a toy right now!! I cant have it?? Well then I am throwing myself on the ground, holding my breath till I turn blue, and then Im gonna kick and scream and break all your stuff until you give me what I want!!!
I know, I know, the paralell isnt accurate, but if you think about it, He punished the isrealites ALOT. and killed millions of pagans (including women and children) simply because they werent worshipping him. (granted many were bad, but how can children be bad?)
Jesus is the OPPOSITE of the OT God. well in my viewpoint of him anyway. Jesus to me was forgiving, prefered to be in the company of sinners, than with the self-rightous pharisees, and loved children. He LOVED people. He wanted to teach them, even tho he was hungry and tired, he wouls spend hours with them, and even feed them. Yes he got angry at the money changers in the temple, chasing them out and whipping them with ropes..lol, but it was because they were taking advantage of the people, whom he cared about.
that's my viewpoint anyway...
Off the cuff, In the old testement God and Satin were a tag team. Like Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage. Fighting in the media but hanging out together in their dayly life. The original Ying and Yang, God and Satin that is.
More seriously, Its hard to believe that someone who would smite, kill ,anhiliate, drown everyone, rather than talk and reason is full of love. Maybe some love with a touch of a bipolar imbalance with sadistic tendencies and a little alzhimers on the side.
Jesus of the new testement. He wasn't very respectful toward his mother or fig trees. He liked to speak in ridiles. That makes me wonder if he ever read the old testement where it says a light should be put out for all to see. Not obscured. And where it say that a bell should ring clearly, not muffled. Living in Florida I see wanna be Jesus's walking on water all the time. They get on a sandbank and end up way out in Tampa Bay. They even got the fish net thing down. I think back to times when I was downtrodden and oppresed, I was never happy or joyful. I'm not sure he knew what he was talking about.
He liked to joke around. He could have performed some miracles for pontius pilot and had them recorded in secular history so there wouldn't be so much confusion as to who he was. He could have chosen to come durning this millenium so we could have recorded his works on telvevision and had them analyzed by David Copperfield and the Amazing Randy.
As far as character analysis is concerned, I'd say there are about as many "Yahwehs" in the OT as "Jesuses" in the N.T.
As far as violence in particular is concerned, the Jesus of Revelation is not unlike the Yahweh of Deuteronomy or Joshua. Reciprocally the Yahweh of Jonah is very close to the Jesus of the Sermon on the Mount. You can't compare the OT and the NT globally without oversimplifying both.
Read: "GOD" by Alexander Waugh. It answers your question
Blueblades
Both Jehovah in the OT and Jesus in the NT can be difficult to analyze or understand. There are examples of great love shown and then other ones of what seems like cruelty to humans.
Jesus is certainly the one that seems more loving. But even he talks about destroying people in Revelation and the Jews in the 1st century which certainly happened.
I try to take what is positive from their examples and leave the rest as I certainly don't understand allowing or causing your creation to suffer.
