by tetrapod.sapien 24 Replies latest jw friends
It is not good to live opposed to our stated VALUES. I don't know how to describe this, I just know it is. We have to live true to our fundamental selves. If we break those internal values, we disrespect the core of US.
http://www.leaderu.com/cl-institute/habits/habit1.html
I think it is another discussion to live opposed to our BELIEFS, or to discuss someone else's hypocricy. We never know what is going on in their head, or where their beliefs might be leading them.
Even from reading the bible I don’t see any reason to be in any religion (since you realise what Matthew 24:15 is saying you’ve got the point about religion – None are really good).
What Jesus said to the Jews works for everyone: Listen to the Pharisees = be aware (of the message – because I guess most couldn’t read and they needed to realise that they missed him) but he also said don’t follow what they do and said what was wrong (it talks a lot) – he didn’t say choose the right religion. (religion biblically means : Respect it’s not an equivalent as being in the right organisation)
I don’t think workshiping God have something to do with following religious rules, if your own moral have nothing to do with egocentrism you are workshiping God.
Jesus also said Matthew 12: 30 to 33
30. "He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters. 31. "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32. "Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. 33. "Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit.
It’s all about your fruits …(LOL) … blasphemy against him (the head/the Leader/the Lord) is not a real problem (as soon as you don’t work against what is valuable). It’s being against the holly spirit which is the real problem: Means working against the force of true love = the love of what is good = the respect of what is valuable and leads to good fruits.
Religions only lead to some weird kind of idolatry – look at the JW they are totally slaves of the WTBS and they defend it as it was their mother with no regards for the real message – religions most talk about salvation and this is not exactly what should prevail – what should prevail is just being nice with others and it helps if you can be spiritual means forget about what’s vain – cause this world is vain everything is supposed to die at some point but we are subject to imperfection (we are the slaves of our body somehow) and of course we aren’t able to be totally spiritual … but since you don’t want the bad everything is ok (Read Roman 7).
3 years ago... http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/63990/1.ashx
When I was a JW I used to be quite obsessive about "truth" and "lie" -- not only because of JW doctrine btw. I felt a sort of terror of losing the solid ground of "reality".
I later realised that I had lied a lot to myself throughout this period.
****if your best friend was an atheist, and you were an atheist too, but one day she started praying to some god, how would you react when she explained that she knows that the god she prays to does not exist, and that it is for emotional comfort only?******
I would probably wonder what was going on in her life at that time. She was probably going through a very confusing moment or experiencing complete terror at her lot in life at the moment.
while not believing in *god* I believe in bigger things than the tribal deity of the bible. My *prayers* are to the universe and the vast space inside me that is divine. It is a calling of energy and gratitude to whatever is bigger than me. The universe likes a grateful spirit. It feels emotionally good to pray out the thanks you feel. maybe that's what your friend feels......
I will have to go back through when I have more time and read the other posts, but having read Tetra's original post, I just wanted to point out that my friend is an athiest who loves to go to church. It's for the fellowship of it, because it makes him feel good. And his pastor friend and the rest of the church group knows he is an athiest, but welcomes him with open arms. They don't try to convert him, but just welcome him, include him, and are happy he is there.
I recently met his pastor friend and he invited me to their church as well. I have not gone, but it's nice to know you are welcome somewhere regardless of whether or not you agree with everything, or anything, they say.
I don't think my friend is being dishonest or hypocritical because he is nothing but forward about his stance on things. Why not do something that feels good? How is that not being true to yourself? And why do you have to believe in a god in order to benefit from true "christian" love?
GG or BG what an interesting example. I've never heard of such a thing, ie an atheist going to church because he enjoys it. It shows to me how each atheist is able to be truly 'different'. He doesn't have to conform and everything is down to him. Freedom of choice. An atheist enjoys the company of christians. So what? Where's the atheist rule book which says he shouldn't? It's religion that has rule books and they use them to control people.
This church going atheist sounds like a cool guy to me. A lot of people are so disdainful of other people's beliefs. He simply enjoys the company of his fellow humans.
This isn't that far away from enjoying Christmas and singing carols, without believing in Father Christmas or Jesus.
Clam
Nobody will be able to fight against what’s not believable to him/her … (how could it be a sin?)
It’s interesting Narkissos that you used the word “REALITY” in opposition with “ILLUSION” because somehow that is what the bible is talking about. What is SPIRITUAL is far from what is VISIBLE. But what is illusion and what is reality from what we can see?It’s all about perception.
Any material is concrete and as human we are concrete (flesh/bones/blood) but concrete do not mean REAL spiritually talking. Why? Because what is moving (leads to act and react) in a way or an other depends on the state of our spirit(what we want – what have the most importance for us)and this is not visible. But it have an impact on everything (concrete or not)
Spiritually the reality in everything is about: what we believe as being good or bad and leads us to act and react – and by then every concret materiel and even any spiritual thing can be destroyed, preserved or built. Because of anyone … their own choice but globally everybody can be concerned (look at what happen to the earth)
I realised that having faith is not exactly about believing in God/Christ … but believing in God/Christ have something to do with believing that this world is a set of illusion which leads nowhere without a bit of spirituality (working against what is vain for real satisfaction) for a better understanding about what is good and bad.
All that to say workshipping God have nothing to do with what you do exactly, it most have to do with what you feel for others …
There is a time for everything and everybody do not have to take the same path, to reach the same place. It’s true about spirituality too … you can be the worse and it can lead you to be the nicest at the end … you can be the best but it might leads to too much pride which gives too much importance to your Ego.
Nobody can really be condemned at any point by us (because we don’t know what comes from what emotionally talking and where it will lead at the end for each one in particular – we do not have the same history to be able to fully understand each other).
But we all have to get to a point and the example in the bible about this is the guy who was crucified next to Jesus (he just regretted sincerely – after having being bad all his life). David (in being very blessed) have been very bad bad just to have a woman … (but he regretted sincerely too). It’s not really about how much good you did (because you were able or not regarding to your own situation).
You know when you are good, not because you are doing the good (because you can do the good just to flattering your Ego), you know when you are good only if you feel for others and you regret if you did them something bad. Otherwise you only feel great and you might miss some points about the good and its about being able to forgive (not forgetting or let anything bad running you still have to react for the good if you get the point) but forgiving.
All my previous post actually want's to say you can be athéïste / Agnostic but still workshipping God your own way ...
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is it some how wrong, or immoral, or distasteful to believe one thing, but practice another in one's life?
Hello Tetra
You are asking my opinion. Please dont take offense. To me to believe one thing and practice another is a sign of confusion, inner confusion. The difference between an atheist and and agnostic, which I claim to be is the atheist is just like a jw. He knows, and to me that means he knows what is unknowable. As an agnostic if I see someone who is arrogant enough to claim he knows but dosent even have the faith of his convictions, I am not going to have any more to do with that sort of loony tunes type person than necessary. So to me I guess the operative word is I find such a thing distasteful. Ill back track here for a moment. I dont find atheist as distastefull as Jw's because they are not organized in the same way. And if you quit being an atheist and convert to another belief system I doubt you stand to loose as much as a jw. Myself I describe myself as an agnostic and a observer of life. If the data I observe ever moves me out of the agnostic category so be it. But it will have to be tested forword and back words and with stand a world of scrutiny. At 54 years of age, 21 as an ex jw, I am not very optomistic that I will ever be anything than an agnostic.
But also I think as a human being on this journey we should test the waters. Try to discover what is going on. Try to understand this thing called life. So if part of ones journey takes him to the land of the atheist and he finds himself praying to a foreign God and that enriches his experience in this realm of spirits having human experiences. Then thats cool. As long as it doesnt hurt anyone else, If it feels good do it.
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thank you RAF, makes sense to me.
