I am thinking of being up front to my family about my thoughts on the WT

by Check_Your_Premises 18 Replies latest jw experiences

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  Check_Your_Premises

  I'll try not to make this long.

  My wife recently told me that she thinks I act like "she has some sort of flaw that makes her need to be a jw" and I am "trying to figure out what it is".

  I don't know how better to sum up my attitude over the last couple of years. When she said it I just shook my head and laughed. Busted.

  I went on to describe it this way to MJ:

  "I tell you that thing my wife told me about trying to psychoanalyze her really got me. It is like EVERYTHING I did just made it worse. I had a bit of an epiphany I think. One thing Hassan really emphasized is respecting the cult member.
  
  I think my approach was fundamentally disrespectful. While caring for her deeply and acting out of concern for her, I was still approaching it from a point of absolutely NO respect for her decision.
  
  I think as ubm's we have to give up our desire to control this outcome, and be willing to say that if they choose this life we respect it. As confounding as their choice is, we don't approach them as a person doing something completely self-destructive, but as someone making an informed choice... because that is how they see themselves."

  So to that end I am considering actually coming clean with my feelings about the WT. I also think I need to get some of my concerns and issues out there for the children to see.

  The trick is not to force it on anyone.

  I always ask first, "do you want to know how I feel about that?"

  And perhaps even more important, when I describe an issue I have, such as the control of information, I always preface it with "I dont expect you to see it this way, this is just my perspective, can you see why I would see it that way?"

  Is anybody still reading this?

  What do you guys think?

  CYP
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  carla

  Hi CYP, was thinking about you the other day. Sure, they need to be respected for their destructive choice, I guess. However, they must also respect the ubm's (or watchtower widows) choice. As you know that is impossible, we are filled with satan. You mean after all this time the kids don't know you think it's all bunk?

  You act as if it is some sort of flaw in her that makes her want to be a jw? We all have flaws, I'm sure she sees many flaws in you too. Can she truly say that she doesn't see you as having some fundamental flaw for not believing whole heartedly? What I see amongst ubm's is that the jw expects things they are not willing to give themselves. Typical of jw mindset. No, we can't force them to see anything. Nobody seems to leave unless they are ready to or are pushed out. The kids are well old enough to see both sides of the coin here. You may not be able to change the adults mind but you sure can with the kids. You could save the kids a lifetime of misery. Something as simple as homework, notice how they must cite all sources and research many different sources? Do they with info from the wt? The kids must learn how to think critically. It is a gift you can help give them.

  In many ways the average jw does look like they have some sort of mental illness. The obsession of the wt filling their entire being every minute of every day. Obsessive compulsive disorder is listed among mental illnesses. The feelings of superiority among jw's could be considered a form of mental illness too. This list could go on and on, they have many behaviors that look like or mimic mental illnesses. So what? It insults her that you think there is some sort of mental deficiency? She probably thinks your nuts too. I find their entire org, literature, doctrine and theology insulting and intolerant to the rest of the world. The jw sees themselves as making an informed choice and we must respect that? Then there should be no problem discussing the information, good and bad about the org.

  Sounds like you have been respectful. Sounds like your doing the ubm circle dance too!
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  Crumpet

  Like Carla I was also wondering how you were getting on a couple of days ago when reading outbutnot down's thread below:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/127041/2248038/post.ashx#2248038

  I havent read Hassan's book but he does seem to be an expert on the subject judging by other board members referencing of him and recommendations. You know I think that the depths to which you willing to go to save yoru family and be there for them is incredibly admirable. Your wife does not know how much you love her really! I hope she does one day.

  I can't really advise what is the best course to take - I've never been in those circumstances and find it hard to imagine how I would react knwoing that virtually every base is covered by the Borg so that they will have warned her about your negativity. I think asking if she wants to hear what you have to say is a good start.

  Maybe outbutnotdown can also help you - do read his threads, they are very interesting and not a dissimilar problem to your own where tact and sensitivity are of the essence.
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  moshe

  Good luck on "outing" yourself. Only you can decide if your wife can handle this bit of honesty. Mine couldn't.
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  Gill

  'Tell' her that she 'doesn't' want to hear how you feel about the subject when she asks you about it.

  Make her wait, hours, days, weeks, whatever and badger you and really WANT to know how you feel.

  Then, tell her respectfully how you feel.

  You will have prepared her mind for the information like finely tilled soil!

  The Watchtower have NOT thought of that one, and have NOT covered and can never cover that base... naturally strong human curiosity.
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  blondie

  I was thinking about you too lately wanting to send a e-mail Xmas card.

  You are right in respecting her decision...but that does not mean you agree with it. Imagine how it would be if she were constantly pressuring you to "become" a JW?

  Seeking some answer to some personal flaw? Maybe...but then if not the WTS then probably just another group to do her thinking for her. It is a challenge when JWs leave to learn to do their own research, make their own decisions. Some of us struggle for many years or worse yet get involved in another group that does our thinking for us.

  Just love her dearly, love your children, help her around the house, commend her, hug and kiss her regularly. Nobody could tell me the WTS was wrong; I eventually saw it for myself through study and meditating on what I learned. Even knowing, it took awhile to leave.

  Blondie
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  jgnat

  It might be time to put your campaign on a more respectful footing. I wouldn't flood her with your feelings all at once. Share one or two thoughts when she is least cult-like.

  I've seen my husband cascade in to cognitive dissonance too many times to ever go through it again. If I can help it. I let him know how I'm feeling, but not all at once.

  A new observation over the Christmas holidays is that he retreats in to cult thinking when the WORLD gets too scary. When people can't get along, he retreats in to cult thinking. When faced with his own mortality, or mine, he retreats in to WT-speak. This revelation helped me understand what is his Watchtower draw. For him, the complexity of human interaction is mysterious and strange. The WT settles all that; within the brotherhood there is perfect unity. Mortality? Not a problem. As long as he keeps his nose clean, he can "live forever on paradise earth."

  I dunno. The world IS scary. That won't go away. How can I encourage him to be more brave? Or alternatively, chip away at the WT facade (their retreat is not as secure as it seems)?
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  Check_Your_Premises

  Wow it is so nice to hear from so many old friends.

  It has been awhile since I have wandered in here.

  I have a basic approach I am thinking through. The big thing is to make a clean break with the wt. Up until now I have always kind of left it as a "I am looking at things and keeping an open mind"

  I just don't think that is credible anymore.

  ALso the kids just don't have the benefit of knowing all that is out there that can refute the wt. I wouldn't try to show them anything. I just want them to know that such things exist, and is available to them if they wish. The wt can put up their little wall to try to restrict information but that won't exist in my house.

  I will fill you in when I get it worked out if anyone is interested.

  Good to hear from you all and thanks for your thoughts.

  CYP
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  MsMcDucket

  You're kinda between a rock and a hard place. When my girls started trying to control the way that I did things in my own home, I had to kick them out. I remember putting a regular old wreath on the door. My sister had given me the wreath after I had gotten out of the hospital. One day, I noticed that the wreath was missing. The next thing my husband noticed was that someone had taken his magnetic bow (support our troops) of the back of the truck. We started to get ticked off.

  I don't know what I'm getting at. I think I'm trying to say that you have to lay down your rules. It's your house, too. You have religious freedom, and you should be able to do what you think is right. No one likes walking around on egg shells in their own home.

  Did that make any sense?
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  bebu

  Hi CYP,

  Interesting post. If your bitterness with the WTS is tainting your feelings toward your wife, I'm glad that she could verbalize how she saw it. And glad that you are able to look objectively at your treatment of her. Those are good conditions for communication to grow in, so I hope that continues.

  Very glad to hear from you after so long. Keep us posted!

  bebu