We are forgetting something.

by MrMoe 23 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  ashitaka

  Face to face with one that's shunning me-what do you call it?

  Sending a friend to probe me for apostate ideas. What's that?

  I don't know moe-it's not a label, it's a feeling that I have towards them, because of the way they did and always will treat me. I just can't see beyond. In every congregation I've visited there have been the same situations, the same judgemental people, and the same contempt for personality. I didn't call them immoral. I meant that they were uncaring.

  Uncaring in the familial sense. No. At least as long as you're stong in the "truth", although I admit it does depend on the family. But if a family is too friendly to their own if they are df'd, then they themselves come under fire. Have you ever seen that?

  I'm explaining myself because I enjoy your posts and want you to know I'm not a JW bigot. When I meet one, I'm polite as pie. The things I wrote are just my thoughts, because of what happened to me.

  Were you 'in'? Do you still have a supportive family, or free-thinking friends who are still JW's? I have several JW friends still, active ones, who regard me no differently, but as a whole.....

  Thanks for the time mrmoe. I'm glad you can be compassionate for some of us hardheads.

  Ashitaka
• 

  MrMoe

  I understand your feelings ashitaka. My family and others are aware of my contrary beleifs and leave me alone. They treat me with love and try to "encourage" me - but I pretty much stay away.

  I agree most JW's are VERY judgemental- which is a learned response. They are taught over thier entire life to judge others. It is in the literature, in talks and everywhere else.

  I was a JW my whole life and was raised this way. I was judgemental at one point, too. It didn't mean I didn't love others, I just didn't understand where they are coming from. It is part of fear - be afraid of what you don't undertstand. JW's are afraid and live very sheltered lives.
• 

  Esmeralda

  This is a good point, Moe. I do love Jehovah's Witnesses, not only because all but a handfull of members of my family are. Because they are such sincere, and sincerely tortured people in general. You show me a truly happy JW and I'll show you someone who is so in denial about reality that they also probably still believe that Mickey Mouse really lives in Disneyworld.

  Kindness is always the way to go. It says a lot. My JW relatives were totally shocked when my father came home with me after the hospital and not my super-theocratic older sister and her elder husband.

  He knew that he was really wanted here.

  happy monday mornin' to ya Moe

  *hug*
  essie
• 

  Andee

  Hello All,

  Maybe I am just being nit-picky. However, I think we are ALL "Judgemental" and I think that is a GOOD thing.

  It's probably just semantics, yet I do think there are things and situations we ARE to judge. Plus, I think "judgemental" is getting mixed up with being critical of a person or situation.

  For Example:

  Most Ex-Dubs have "judged" the WTS to be a load of bull.

  Everyone on this board who has posted an opinion, whether it be pro or con, has made a judgement regarding the WTS. Whether that judgement has any power is another issue altogether.

  Also:

  Many loyal witnesses are "critical" of anything that does not conform to their beliefs. Some, obviously, more critical than others.

  I don't like to paint Witnesses with a broad brush. That, however, can really be a challenge. Even though I haven't been in the Org for years, some of my JW relatives, after years of no contact, have decided they want communication again. Some have chosen not to. That's fine. However, it illustrates that even within the JWs there still personal choice.

  Anyway, I think the WTS to be a danger cult. One that uses its power over its members to destroy individuals and families. If my criticism had any power, my judgement would be for all it's current members to be enlightened it's lies and deceit and be free to live lives of true meaning and purpose.

  Andee
• 

  Winston

  Moe,

  You make some valid points.
  I don't feel any ill will towards JW's, I still have family that are JW's.

  My only wish is to free them from Mind Control, and I'll do what ever I can to acomplish that.
  It may require some measures that some may concider borderline, but each one has to make up their own mind about tactics to use to free loved ones from dishonest men's manipulation.
• 

  Room 215

  Hi all,
  It seems one of the recurrent themes on this board is that of the chasm that divides the rank and file JW from the leadership. In most cases, our contempt is focused, rightly, on the latter for the cynical manipulation of the flock.
  There's no question that most of the locals are well-motivated, if naive, people, quite unaware that progressively, almost imperceptibly through the years, their exposure to WT dogma and their concurrent withdrawal from the influence of broader, outside sources of information (how many JWs, I wonder, are avid readers of newspapers and other respected news periodicals?) have narrowed their worldview to a hairbreadth.
• 

  Billygoat

  Moe,

  This is a great thread. I'm a firm believer that you "catch more flies with honey". And I don't mean that in a manipulative sense, but in a win-win sense. Nobody likes to be railroaded or pushed into believing or doing something. But is there something I can do to help bridge the gap that they have caused themselves?

  I do believe when I start getting overly-emotional about something, that usually means I need to take a step back and view the situation in my head and not my heart. With JW family still in that's very hard. But it's something I feel I MUST do for my own sanity. Some topics or conversations are not always worth getting upset over - it can be a huge waste of mental and emotional energy. On top of that, I don't have to worry about trying to "fix" the damage I've caused in the meantime. (ie - sarcasm, closing emotional doors, bitter comments, etc.)

  Somedays I feel strong enough to face the reality of my brainwashed JW family. Other days I'm not, so I don't. Doesn't make me a bad person. Just human.

  Love,
  Andi
• 

  ashitaka

  I think it's hardest to be sweet to them when they are condescending, rather than when they argue with you. There's nothing worse than being pitied.

  The 'i feel so sorry for you' approach they take put's me at the border of insanity. It reminds me of all the malipulation I suffered.

  I think I'm angry because I'm realistic.

  1.What "good" witness would listen to me?
  2.If they did, how would they react? Scorn? Rage? Incredulity?

  ash

  "I pray that I may never see the desert again-hear me God."-Robert Bolt
• 

  Tallyman

  MrMoe,

  I read your post, and I don't think you'd make a good De-Programmer,
  but then, it's not a job for everyone.

  But you're way off on a lot of what you postulate.

  Those of us who are no longer JW's were JW's at one point in time, correct?

  Korrect, we were Kultists.

  So, we KNOW how Mind-Kontrolled we were and that we needed Strong Medicine to SNAP us out of that Slumber...

  We all KNOW for a FACT that 95% of JW's do care - so much - that they endure mosquitoes, heat, cold, fire ants, rabid dogs, loss of personal income, spend their free time dedicated to helping others, and much much more to help assholes who hate them to help save their lives.

  Wait. Who are you calling "assholes"?

  The people in the privacy of their homes, who after working hard the whole week to survive, expecting to spend quality time with their families, and get just a LITTLE peace and quiet... are met with the RUDE PEST jWs who INVADE THEIR SPACE, banng-bannng! rinnng-rrrrrinng!
  and DESTROY their quality time, to Deliver a Terroristic DEATH THREAT to these people at their home, "their Castle" - ? ? ?

  (bottomline it for the jWs "good news"... here go:
  "Either You, Mr./Mrs.Householder See Things OUR WAY, or Else!, Or Else! you will be Executed at Armageddon!")

  THAT is what jWs are Saying to these people at the privacy of their homes, if you cut through their Smiley Face Bullshit.

  And when these people (probably some are frightened) slam the door, or curse them for being Home Invaders... you would call them the "assholes"?

  If you REALLY were a jehovah Witness, MrMoe, you ought to know the real Identities of WHO the ASSHOLES were, and are.

  These jW ASSHOLES need to be Shocked out of their horrible behavior.
  Like these pictures of them walking away smiling and laughing from scenes of mass loss of human life in their own literature-
  they look like Zombies from "The Night of the Living Dead"...

  HOW do you wake a Zombie up?
  Not gently.

  We are forgetting something… You can catch more flys with honey…

  That analogy doesn't work when you are dealing with a Highly Dangerous and Destructive Mind Kontrol Kult, and the poor people who are LOCKED into their Embrace.

  Over the years, here on the Net, fighting this Watchtowerkult, and seeing MANY jWs who came online to seek, and left the Kult as a result of what they found... I have never heard one of them say other than it was the SHOCKING information they read about the Kult, which was instrumental in their FINALLY Coming To Their Senses and being able to find their bearings to manuever and Exit the Evil Kult.

  I've never seen a case of some jehovah Witness coming online to read about the Watchtower, and were helped with "Honey-Dipped/Sugar-Coated" Information.

  Diplomacy didn't cut it.

  They were helped with Hard Facts & Strong Medicine!

  And what you say above, almost parrots the Watchtower Fanatics online who would like others to believe that WatchtowerApostates HATE jWs.

  I've never heard a WTApostate say they "hate" jWs in my years online.
  They, We, hate the Watchtower.
  The Evil Entity.
  The Organization.

  Not the people trapped in it.

  .
• 

  MegaDude

  Andi said:

  Somedays I feel strong enough to face the reality of my brainwashed JW family. Other days I'm not, so I don't. Doesn't make me a bad person. Just human.

  I feel the same way about the JW members of my family. There are times that, despite the fact they shun me, I can still be kind to them when I happen to run into them. Other times when I find it best not to say anything because the only thing coming out of my mouth would be angry words. There was a time I was only too happy to get nose to nose with them and unleash the full extent of my feelings and what I know about their cult religion right to their faces. While it was gratifying in obvious ways, it was ultimately very dissatisfying. I didn't get what I wanted, which was a close relationship with them. Nor did I position myself well as someone who would be safe to ask questions of should they begin to question the validity of the Watchtower in the future. Jesus words of "Love your enemy" hit home for me after doing it "my way." If you don't, how are you really any different than the JWs?

  Time has passed and it doesn't sting as much when months have gone by without a word from my JW relatives. (They live 10 minutes from me.) When I see them, I tell them I miss them, I love them, how I wish things were different so we could be close again. And as time has passed, and they know I won't put them on the defensive and argue with them everytime I see them, they have said the same thing to me.
  It's an improvement. What it will lead to in the future between us, who can say?

  "Hope is a good thing... maybe the best of things."
  Andy's letter to Red in the Shawshank Redemption