Do you believe in God?
because you will when I take my shirt off.
Guido
by Andy C 64 Replies latest jw friends
Do you believe in God?
because you will when I take my shirt off.
Guido
Interesting comments. Now I'm going to go kiss Hank's Ass.
I have three children, all grown up now.
Now, if by, following some people's example for they're being no God. (because of suffering) Then all parents are crappy parents. Me included.
As a loving parent I should do all I can to make sure no harm or suffering come to my children through out their lives, right? I should follow them every where they go and make sure no one hurts them, right?
I should be able to take away the free choice of those who in ANY way (words or deeds) might hurt my children, right? So, when my children don't listen to my counsel, direction that will lead to their happiness, and their lives are filled with suffering because of not listening, whose fault is it if their lives suck?
The parents or the children's?
My children were given instructions for living, a foundation to base their decisions on. If they decide not to listen and their lives are full of suffering is that my fault? If others do harm to them is that my fault?
So, as a good parent, I should get rid of all those who hurt my children, right?
Who would be left, not me, and not you.
And as far as natural disasters, I have an answer for that too, but if you do not understand the spirit of God's word, you won't understand this: the story of Adam and Eve, and the story of the prodigal son. When you understand the relationship between these two stories, you'll understand why man suffers due to natural disasters and by the hand of man.
But if you don't believe in God and deny his spirit, you will never understand the true meaning and relationship between the two.
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1 Cor 2: 10-14 "The Message"
10-13 The Spirit, not content to flit around on the surface, dives into the depths of God, and brings out what God planned all along. Who ever knows what you're thinking and planning except you yourself?
The same with God—except that he not only knows what he's thinking, but he lets us in on it. God offers a full report on the gifts of life and salvation that he is giving us. We don't have to rely on the world's guesses and opinions. We didn't learn this by reading books or going to school; we learned it from God, who taught us person-to-person through Jesus, and we're passing it on to you in the same firsthand, personal way.
14-16 The unspiritual self, just as it is by nature, can't receive the gifts of God's Spirit. There's no capacity for them. They seem like so much silliness. Spirit can be known only by spirit—God's Spirit and our spirits in open communion. Spiritually alive, we have access to everything God's Spirit is doing, and can't be judged by unspiritual critics. Isaiah's question, "Is there anyone around who knows God's Spirit, anyone who knows what he is doing?"has been answered: Christ knows, and we have Christ's Spirit.
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1 Cor 2: 10-16 "Amplified Bible"
10 'Yet to us God has unveiled and revealed them by and through His Spirit, for the [Holy] Spirit searches diligently, exploring and examining everything, even sounding the profound and bottomless things of God [the divine counsels and things hidden and beyond man's scrutiny].
11 For what person perceives (knows and understands) what passes through a man's thoughts except the man's own spirit within him? Just so no one discerns (comes to know and comprehend) the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have not received the spirit [that belongs to] the world, but the [Holy] Spirit Who is from God, [given to us] that we might realize and comprehend and appreciate the gifts [of divine favor and blessing so freely and lavishly] bestowed on us by God.
13 And we are setting these truths forth in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the [Holy] Spirit, combining and interpreting spiritual truths with spiritual language [to those who possess the Holy Spirit].
14 But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.
15 But the spiritual man tries all things [he examines, investigates, inquires into, questions, and discerns all things], yet is himself to be put on trial and judged by no one [he can read the meaning of everything, but no one can properly discern or appraise or get an insight into him].
16 For who has known or understood the mind (the counsels and purposes) of the Lord so as to guide and instruct Him and give Him knowledge? But we have the mind of Christ (the Messiah) and do hold the thoughts (feelings and purposes) of His heart. '
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Non believers always say, show me proof or "give us a sign"... ok.... open your eyes... look up, look down, look at your thumb...gee your...(Oops sorry) look all around... look in the mirror... the proof is all around you, you just don't want to accept it.
If you don't understand God's word, maybe you need God's spirit and the Mind of the Christ...
Acadian
I think we ALL know that there is no way to prove that god doesn't exist...
In fact if the theist is a complete brain case, he could believe that the entire universe was created two days ago, and god just made everything seem like it has been here for millenia. And there would be no evidence against that claim. or the claim that fairies exist, or invisible pink unicorns...
But unless the theist is that stubborn, there are a bunch of things that would support the claim that god doesn't exist:
Like the flaws in design, if I was supposed to live forever, why do I only have two sets of teath? If I was never supposed to get ill, why do I have a cough reflex, or have and immune system? If all the carniverous animals are supposed to eat grass, how will the earth not be over infested with bunnies? If the earth is supposed to be inhabited forever, why is the moon, slowly getting farther and farther from the earth? If there was no big bang, why are the gallaxies all moving away from a central point in the universe?
Obviously all of these things dispute the belief in the god spoken of in the Bible. Lot's of people make up their own definitions of god, but I won't even attempt to dispute these because as I said, they are made up and therefore if I came up with something that indicates they don't exist the person will just change his definition of god to prove me wrong... sorry your on your own with that.
But ask yourself: Do you believe in god because it's logical to do so, or do you believe in god because you want to?
If you want to believe in god that's your problem, but personally I think the whole concept is flawed.
LtCmd.Lore
Pascall's Wager ("If I don't believe in god and I am wrong I will suffer negative concequences, so I may as well believe in god as I won't know if I am wong, and if I am right I will be okay with him") is a coward's life, and presumes god can be taken in by transactional belief (you scratch my back I'll worship yours).
Bible quotations are all very well, but if those were actually writen by people who knew someone who was the son of god, there is no proof of it, and as other bits of the Bible are WAY out, to decide a random scripture invites belief says a lot about how a person decides what is factual, and what is possible - although many claim to have spoken to god in some way or have had god revealed to them, which would seem to be quite convining.
Many people. Many people of many different religions, many exclusive to other religions with belief only they are right. So what does that mean, really? Lots of gods? One bunch of people just happen to be unprovably right and the rest wrong - it's not like a Christian can prove in a court of law their beliefs are 'righterer' than a Buhhdist or vica-versa. Or every one is wrong?
Theism is unsupportable, deism a nice way of breaking the fall to seeing 'god' as at best a pantheistic metaphor of how wonderful everything is, which is a fact most atheists would agree with.
This is it. To presume otherwise is as supportable as a belief in fairies or explosives demolishing the WTC. Personal revelation is obviously convincing to the individual, but that doesn't mean it isn't just your head #ucking with you
Everyone is perfectly entitled to their beliefs, obviously. But is someone is nice only because of god it doen't make them sound either nice or trustworthy. What many religionists need to realise is they are nice ANYWAY, and know perfectly well how to live decently without a rule book or threats.
If there is a god that is probably the only way to please him.
LtCmd:Your premise could be flawed, even if allegedly basing your supposition about God on the bible. On what basis do you think we should be able to live forever if there is a God? The bible even speaks of a goal of attaining 120 years in good health.
I agree with you that our bodies show that we can only have a finite existence and that we are assailed by illnesses. Maybe it's wonderful that we are designed so well that our bodies adapt and evolve to cope with our environment
Gyles:It's possible for someone to take an omnipresent view that permits theism instead of deism, as evidenced in the words "this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you..."
Besides, who times the rainbows?
Sex is so pleasurable that only a supreme being could have done that.
Amen.
But then man created religion thus leading to a dozen ways to frack up the above observation.
-Eduardo
Okay, fair point about the rainbows. I have no rational explanation other than chance and synchronicity (which are actually quite satisfactory explanations).
I can't believe in a personal deity on such slender evidence, nor do I really think a personal deity will faff around with rain and sunlight to catch my attention as there are demonstrably more important things around that require its attention, and although one can argue god is so (in the words of Python) so tremendously BIG it could do many things at once, the fact is it doesn't, at least not on a scale which commands belief in me. And if god WAS so tremendously big then why would it care (although one can get all ineffable in answering this and give the appearance of an answer when there is not one) about my attention?
I still say it was more like the Universe laughing at me than anything else, so I guess I am an atheist with pantheistic tendancies.
Thou art god.
You've seen "Dogma", right?
Who's to say what priorities God has
You believe in god or not? Why?
which God? Zeus? Thor? i don't believe in them. i guess that makes me an atheist. and i guess if you don't believe in them either, then you're an atheist too. see? not that scary. as far as jehovah is concerned, no, i do not believe in this yahweh character apart from the obvious and real place that he inhabits in the minds of followers. i do believe in some other gods though. you. me. trees. dung beetles. carots. bacteria. earth. moon. air. paris hilton. mother terresa. and those are just things in my living room. but, there are gods everywhere. the important thing is coming to understand your own god-nature. and when you understand this, you will understand that this culturally loaded word we like to use because we are too lazy to search for a different one, "God", is not even a label worth worrying about anymore. ahhh... breathing is suddenly easier! peace, tetragod