Nosferatu's School of Dating - Lesson 1.2 - Attraction

by Nosferatu 13 Replies latest social relationships

  • Nosferatu
    Nosferatu

    Lesson 1.1 is here:
    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/20/126517/1.ashx

    For those of you who are wondering when I'm going to get to the subjects of how to ask her out, or how to approach a woman, they're coming, but we need to get your mind on the right track before any of that can happen.

    Another poster just recently started a thread, asking what women wanted. This is where men seem to go wrong with women, and immediately kill any chance that they may have had with a woman. The truth is, women don't require anything from men (other than sperm to reproduce). Women don't need men to make them happy, but companionship is a nice thing to have.

    Desperation:

    First, there are some things that absolutely turn women off, and I'm not talking about spiders or a man with an erection. Desperate, unconfident men are a HUGE turn off to women. When a man shows up on a first date with flowers, a teddy bear, candy, and takes her out for a $100 meal, it doesn't impress her. In fact, she's probably thinking "not this shit again!" It's not men's fault, but society has taught them that they should be "different from the jerks" by putting women on a pedestal, showering her with gifts, money, and compliments. Because society has filled men's brains with this idea, MOST men display this kind of behavior. By bringing her gifts to show her how much you like her, you're just doing what every other guy does. You're not unique.

    The effect:

    Because men have gone out and spent all this money on women, they have spoiled the woman. Do you know how many women out there HATE flowers because of this behavior? Flowers remind them of men who are pathetically desperate. Just because you bring her gifts, it doesn't mean she's going to fall in love with you, kiss you, or jump your bones. There's a good chance you'll experience the opposite, and you'll again find yourself sitting at home spanking your monkey.

    Second, women don't want to hear relationship talk (or even dating talk) before it happens. If you say "do you want to go out with me" or "I'm looking for a relationship", she'll back off because she doesn't even know you, let alone want a relationship with you! This is usually when she says, "Well, I'd rather take things slow". When men hear this, they stop any progression, remain at a standstill, and the "relationship" goes nowhere.

    Another thing that women don't like is if they feel they're doing you a favor by going out with you. Women don't exist solely to make men happy (or to have a man make her happy). They're just human beings, that's all! So, if you get a positive response from a woman, don't think "I'm so lucky she said yes!" She's not doing you a favor. If anything, she's doing herself a favor by finding some companionship.

    No matter what anybody else says, dating is an act of greed from both ends. He wants a woman to make out with, and she wants a man to make out with. He wants to feel good, and so does she. It's all selfish. Nobody's doing anybody a favor, they're just diving into their own pleasure. The good news is there's nothing wrong with that, and it even works better than trying to do the other person a favor.

    Confidence:

    It's not much of a secret anymore that women love men who are confident in themselves, and what they want. A man who knows what he wants, takes what he wants, and takes it whenever he wants makes a bold statement. If a woman should turn him down, it doesn't matter because there's plenty of other women out there.

    If he should trip and fall on his face, he's not worried about what other people think about him. He just gets up, laughs his ass off along with everyone else, and continues to go about his business. He doesn't need other people to validate anything that he does, because their opinions aren't any of his concern.

    If a woman tries to take advantage of his generousity by asking for a free drink, he will stand up for himself and give the woman nothing. If his best friend also tries to take advantage of his generousity, he will also recieve nothing. The confident man will not allow even those close to him to take advantage of him. He has the ability to stand up for himself, and he uses it when necessary.

    Confident men also have high self esteems. He knows that the old saying is true: To have others love you, you must first love yourself.

    Being a challenge:

    A woman cannot fully appreciate a man who throws himself at her feet and begs for a date. She also cannot appreciate a man who sits on the sidelines waiting for her to make a move. If a man wants to give her a bit of a challenge, he should give her a tasted of what he's all about, and then pull back. Perhaps come back, give her another sweet taste, and then pull back again. It's like eating that one potato chip, and having a craving for more. Women love the craving more than the full bag of potato chips. A woman will crave you more in the time you spend apart than when she's satisfying that craving.

    Being fun and interesting:

    Any women you meet don't really give a shit about your life story. Face it, people's typical lives are boring. If she wanted to be bored, she'd read a grocery list. Women are more interested in men who are fun, exciting, and interesting (and there's a good chance that anything you find interesting will bore her). Save your life story for the fourth or fifth date, and don't tell it all at once. Give her a little bit at a time, and mix it in with other things that are more fun and interesting.

    So now you're probably asking, "well, if I'm so goddam boring, what will we talk about?" Who says you have to talk about your boring lives? Create moments to ENJOY rather than worrying about the content. You can have more fun tossing little balls of paper at each other than telling her about formatting your computer. Then, take one of the balls of paper, put it in her hand, and tell her that it's a gift that she is to keep, and it will remind her forever of the moment that the two of you shared. And that's how you become fun and interesting.

    Kinesthetics

    Kino (abbreviation) is one of the things that I will absolutely STRESS to get a woman to feel comfortable around you. Kino is essentially non-sexual touch. Many cultures do NOT have this problem that most people in North America have. I've met people who are very touchy with anybody they meet, men and women. It's a way to break down barriers and help develope a deeper rapport with a person.

    The same goes for men and women. If a man chats with a woman the whole night and doesn't make ANY kind of physical contact, there is a barrier, or a sexual tension that remains. It makes things uncomfortable for both parties, and the potential for progress is killed.

    There are many way to initiate kino: Touch her in the middle of her back while she goes through a doorway ahead of you, take her hand to look at her rings, play with her earrings, pull a piece of (whatever) that's caught in her hair, brush away an eyelash on her cheek, tickling, and even poking. Sexual places like her breasts are off limits until she gives the green light to touch them (believe it or not, holding hands is included as a sexual action)

    Initiating kino as early as possible in the first meeting is essential in achieving your first kiss. You have to establish rapport and break down the physical barriers before you're both comfortable enough to hold hands, to kiss, and to have sex.

    These are the bare essentials to be more successful at dating women who are attracted to you. The real challenge is when you try to revert from doing the negative actions you're used to, and bringing out the best parts of your personality. Stay tuned.

  • serendipity
    serendipity

    There's a lot that I would agree with here. But some of this advice is lame, based on the assumption that a man and woman want a relationship and not just a one night stand.


    She also cannot appreciate a man who sits on the sidelines waiting for her to make a move.

    ==> Amen!

    If a man wants to give her a bit of a challenge, he should give her a tasted of what he's all about, and then pull back. Perhaps come back, give her another sweet taste, and then pull back again. It's like eating that one potato chip, and having a craving for more. Women love the craving more than the full bag of potato chips. A woman will crave you more in the time you spend apart than when she's satisfying that craving.

    ==> Pullbacks occur naturally in most relationships. Why add more? You risk losing the woman if she's uncertain of your interest. Not all women want to live on emotional rollercoasters.


    Being fun and interesting:

    Any women you meet don't really give a shit about your life story.
    ==> Not true. Your actions give us a lot of insight into your character. It's not necessary to give all the details, but at least hit the main points on the first date.


    You can have more fun tossing little balls of paper at each other than telling her about formatting your computer. Then, take one of the balls of paper, put it in her hand, and tell her that it's a gift that she is to keep, and it will remind her forever of the moment that the two of you shared.
    ==> Maybe that tactic works on some 18 year olds. I would have thought that was a lame act. In general, playfulness is good. But if there is no meaningful conversation, how would the woman get to know you, your character and trustworthiness?


    There are many way to initiate kino: Touch her in the middle of her back while she goes through a doorway ahead of you, take her hand to look at her rings, play with her earrings, pull a piece of (whatever) that's caught in her hair, brush away an eyelash on her cheek, tickling, and even poking.

    ==> If a woman is interested in a man, she'll usually initiate contact by touching a hand or arm or whatever. I think it's safer to wait until she does that before touching her. Tickling and poking as the initial move? Give me a break-I'd probably slap the guy.

    putting women on a pedestal, showering her with gifts, money, and compliments. ==> Yep, I'd love this. Flattery gets a man everywhere. ;-)

  • YoursChelbie
    YoursChelbie
    When a man shows up on a first date with flowers, a teddy bear, candy, and takes her out for a $100 meal, it doesn't impress her.

    ...and your statement is based on a documented study which included how many thousands of women?

    YC

  • Nosferatu
    Nosferatu
    Pullbacks occur naturally in most relationships. Why add more? You risk losing the woman if she's uncertain of your interest.

    That's why there's the need for kino and flirting. Also, we're not talking about relationships, we're talking about the first meeting.

    Not all women want to live on emotional rollercoasters.

    Here's the unfortunate part.... most women live on the emotional rollercoasters regardless of what the man does. If a woman doesn't experience emotional changes, she gets bored. The changes can be positive or negative, but never stay in either for an extended period of time. This will make sense to the men who tried to keep their women happy 100% of the time - she would start creating drama and starting fight for no reason.

    It's not necessary to give all the details, but at least hit the main points on the first date.

    Serendipity, it's not even necessary to know her first name! I can't tell you how many nameless women I've made out with. Personal details have nothing to do with attraction, and I've proven this to myself time and time again. They can come later, perhaps starting on the second date, and I've already emphasized that in my post.

    Maybe that tactic works on some 18 year olds.

    In other words, you don't think older women are any fun. Throwing paper balls at each other isn't about getting a woman into bed, it's about having fun! Me and my wife are in our late 20s, and we still do things like this.

    If you're this closed minded to having a good time with someone of the opposite sex, you're going to find all the "good men" absent from your presence.

    In general, playfulness is good. But if there is no meaningful conversation, how would the woman get to know you, your character and trustworthiness?

    That all happens over time. I never trusted a woman I took out within the first few weeks. Respect and trust are things you have to build over a period of time. Character is something that has to be experienced over a period of time.

    This is why I haven't even begun to touch on long term relationships yet. We have to get past the exchanging of phone numbers, the first date, a short term relationship of a couple of months, and when the couple is ready, they can "be serious" with each other. For now, we're preparing to go out and meet women.

    If a woman is interested in a man, she'll usually initiate contact by touching a hand or arm or whatever.

    But first, you have to gain her interest.

    I think it's safer to wait until she does that before touching her.

    Why is that? The touch is non-threatening, so why should he wait to do so? Perhaps the cultures who use touch as a friendly greeting (pat on the shoulder, shaking hands) should all stop touching each other because it's a bad idea.

    Tickling and poking as the initial move? Give me a break-I'd probably slap the guy.

    No you wouldn't. You're just being defensive about my posts. If you're not just being defensive about my post, please tell me how many men you've slapped.

    Flattery gets a man everywhere. ;-)

    Tell that to men like Elsewhere and Abandoned. Do you think they'd believe you?

    Now, on to YoursChelbie

    ...and your statement is based on a documented study which included how many thousands of women?

    I've honestly lost count. I've seen and heard hundreds upon hundreds of cases from men frustrated because the woman turned him down after he brought her flowers or some kind of a "romantic gift" on a first date.

    Please don't forget that I moderate another forum for single men, and I've been on this forum for almost six years now. The story is always the same, and it's a reflection on what men are learning from the society we live in. It's really quite sad.

  • J-ex-W
    J-ex-W

    Okay, Nos-- On this page you lost me. LMAO on the two paragraphs about doing a favor--that is SOOOO true!!!--but the rest of the stuff breeds 'superficial jerk' to me!

    And the touching thing...I would respond well to a light brush or tap on the arm as a gesture for emphasis while talking or to get my attention, but the other stuff is OFF LIMITS until, and only unless, I have initiated other such contact myself first. Better for the guy to be a little more 'hands off'-ish and the girl to be a little more 'hands on'-ish in the beginning. After all, it's the girl who has to worry about whether this guy might be a potential rapist. Too much touch from the guy early on can be interpreted as a red flag and scare her away.

  • J-ex-W
    J-ex-W

    okay: You're talking about first dates and also how to get to meaningless make-out sessions. Got it. I see the maturity level we're cruisin' for here. Silly me...I assumed we were talking about wanting to get to KNOW someone. As someone who is acquainted with all levels of flirting--I am a natural flirt, as is my youngest son (though he isn't old enough to know it yet)--I find the advice on this page borders on pedantic if not moronic.

    I have, on three occasions in the last three years, been turned off by that "keep this piece of paper" approach you are recommending. I find game-players who cannot hold a serious, even mundane, conversation ridiculously juvenile and lacking in introspection. And who is HE to tell me what momentos to find worth cherishing--or what moments? Each of those papers has found its way to the trash. And won't be missed.

    Nos, I sincerely hope your subsequent tips get better than this. Sadly enough, I expect to read still more....

  • Odrade
    Odrade

    Surprisingly, I agree with almost everything here, but a big emphatic NO on throwing bits of paper. Playfulness is good, juvenile playfulness... well, just be sure you're doing that with a very immature woman, cause a grown-up would likely find that annoying.

    Huge applause for the "don't buy lavish gifts and dinners" on the first few dates... I'd even extend that to waiting until at least a dozen "real" dates have gone by before spending big bucks.

    Meh. There are lots of women who would say none of this is true, but it's how most women act. I don't think a guy should feign disinterest, or try to manipulate the woman into... whatever, but a guy should have his own life, and like himself, because we don't want to provide you with a life, or be the only one that likes you.

  • searching4truth
    searching4truth

    Nos ever listen to Tom Leykis

  • Nosferatu
    Nosferatu
    Got it. I see the maturity level we're cruisin' for here. Silly me...I assumed we were talking about wanting to get to KNOW someone.

    Again, we're going at the pace of a snail. We're also going in succession. You can't have a meaningful relationship without getting to know somebody. You can't get to know somebody if you don't date them. You can't date them unless you meet them and find them attractive.

    Getting to know the person comes a little bit later, and I haven't even got to approaching the woman yet. I'm trying to help my audience learn a little bit and develope a positive mindset before they go out into the field.

    I have, on three occasions in the last three years, been turned off by that "keep this piece of paper" approach you are recommending.

    It's not an approach, it's called fun.

    And who is HE to tell me what momentos to find worth cherishing--or what moments?

    It was a joke that you obviously didn't get. It's the sarcasm of referring to a ball of paper as if it's something sacred and valuable. Good clean fun like this brings out the inner child of both parties. If you're that focussed on being serious on all your dates, you're going to HATE the rest of my posts, because I focus on HAVING FUN with a woman instead of having a job interview.

    Nos, I sincerely hope your subsequent tips get better than this. Sadly enough, I expect to read still more....

    Well, they're not going to work for you if you don't plan on dating women.

    Nos ever listen to Tom Leykis

    I've heard of him, but I've never listened.

    Playfulness is good, juvenile playfulness... well, just be sure you're doing that with a very immature woman, cause a grown-up would likely find that annoying.

    I'll tell you that personally, things like this are qualifiers for me. If a woman can't have a paper ball war, a pillowfight, a poking war, or have any kind of fun in general, I'd consider her too boring to date and ditch her.

    The most boring woman I dated had a talent for going to get her nails done. I tried having a pillowfight with her, but she just sat there like a log. Unbelievably, she continued to call me two months after I quit dating her. And in case you're wondering, she was 19.

    Me and my wife play these "immature" games until this day. We have swordfights with drink straws, throw paper balls (the straw wrappers) at each other, and we have a GREAT time together! We've been doing this ever since we began dating 4 years ago.

    Perhaps I forgot to mention that you need to develope rapport with the woman before having a paper ball war. If she's clearly not into it, TEACH HER how to have fun. I've had to do that a few times.

  • lonelysheep
    lonelysheep
    Create moments to ENJOY rather than worrying about the content. You can have more fun tossing little balls of paper at each other than telling her about formatting your computer. Then, take one of the balls of paper, put it in her hand, and tell her that it's a gift that she is to keep, and it will remind her forever of the moment that the two of you shared. And that's how you become fun and interesting.

    This made me smile. Yeah, that would work to make a guy seem interesting. Not paper throwing in particular, but I get your point. "Something," though. Fun memories naturally initiate more desire.

    Kino (abbreviation) is one of the things that I will absolutely STRESS to get a woman to feel comfortable around you. Kino is essentially non-sexual touch.

    And I'll second that. In addition to what you've already said, dancing is a definate kino. I know...not everyone dances.

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