The JW and the apostate -- who's faith is vulnerable?

by Fatfreek 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Fatfreek

    In this fantasy reality series, you are in charge of a hotel with 100 rooms. They are empty with certain exceptions mentioned below.
    You are also in command, for one day, of 100 JW's and 100 JW apostates. You order them to pair off into separate rooms, 1 JW and 1 JW apostate each.
    Each room is furnished with a complete collection of WT literature dated back to 1880.
    Each room is furnished with a computer with access to the internet.
    For the sake of this temporary arrangement and to prove how powerful their faith really is, the Society has given its 100 members amnesty (relax, this is a fantasy) from its shunning policy. This, of course, in order to promote a true dialog between each party.

    Whose faith would be most vulnerable? Perhaps better questions would be:
    How many JW's would remain JW at the end of the day?
    How many apostates would remain apostate at the end of the day?
    Would you take up such a challenge?


  • moggy lover
    moggy lover

    I suppose it would be unrealistic to imagine that there would be clear cut winners in all or even in most cases. Variables will need to be factored in such as: 1 The degree of fanatacism on the part of the WT follower. 2 The unique ability that skilled followers have to divert attention from embarrasing facts. 3 The level of objectivity on the part of the '' apostate ''

    However all things being equal, I would have to say that since the "A" is better informed of WT theology [and many WT followers are themselves surprisingly ignorant of this] the advantage must lie with the "A" Even if the discussion were confined to a specific subject like the interpretation of Matt 24, with the dizzying changes that the WT is making, many WT followers, and this includes many of the knowledgable ones, are not fully aware of what a specific verse may mean. Some verses, for instance only have one application, in the past, [vs 20] some only one, but in the future, [vs 29] some have two applications, past and present, and some verses have three: past present and future [vs 13] and on and on.

    Again, all things being equal, I think the breakdown would be: "As": 0% change - WT Followers: As much as 30-40% change sides which is currently the statistic for those in the Org less than 10 yrs.


  • dvw

    cool experiment!

    i would say at the end of the day there would be no change on either side. but, given enough time (alone) with the thought of some of the crazy wt. doctrine he has seen for the first time, 20% of the jw's would flip.

  • winnie

    I don't see the point, even if it is a fantasy. When I have successfully pointed out unanswerable questions to Jw's they just feign indifference. Only just recently, and to a P/O, was such a conversation, and it was concluded with the P/O saying, that "even if we are wrong, it's still a good way of life!"

    Yeah... if you don't mind being ostracized, judged, constantly watched, Having your family torn apart, told what to do...need I go on!?!

  • Fatfreek

    Yes, Winnie, I see your point. Fantasies are pointless with the exception that they exercise our imagination to think outside the box. Doing this, at times, yields occasional success with some ventures. I don't pretend that it would certainly work here.

    Yes, Winnie, my family was torn apart some 29 years ago where two of my boys shun me till this day.

    If I had such an opportunity with one, or both, of these boys -- in a room for a day -- I'd make sure and have some of those older publications all bookmarked.

    I've never been one to argue about JW interpretations even when I was one of them. Interpretations are subjective. It's your word against the Society's, your interpretation versus theirs. A lie, however, is not subjective. A lie is like a box score at a baseball game. It's objective; it's black or white; it's there or it's not there; it's intentional and willful, not a mistake. You can't erase it no matter how hard you try.

    You see, I'm one of those who came out way back then because I could see the lying and the coverups -- specifically those where predicted dates failed. Where, for example, predicted dates in one publication (1874) were magically (most folks call that coverup) turned into a different date (1914) in some publication much later where memories of the masses have faded.

    I think, perhaps naively, that most (not all, as your example illustrates) JW's are honest people who given an opportunity to see with their own eyes the Society's own written lies (in their own literature -- enter the motel's library) and coverups, would be uncomfortable -- may even lose a bit of sleep. It may take time (dvw could be right), but such an experience may cause them to explore further.

    To get my boys back would be worth all that effort -- and a thousand times more.


  • jgnat

    Sheesh. Put me in a room with proplog and we'll see who comes out the most bloodied. Books and ideas only take me so far. Sometimes LIFE stares at us from the WINDOW. I say, test the theory against life and see who comes out on top.

    Take a hundred families, duplexed. One decorated to the hilt in Christmas lights, the other prim and proper but a little ragged around the edges. Scroll forward twenty years and see how the kids turn out.

  • NewYork44M

    you would not see an immediate change. Everyone would proclaim that they were the winner in the individual debates.

    However,look at the group one year, five years, and 10 years later... you will see that the marjority of witnesses silently leaving the organization.

  • Fatfreek

    However,look at the group one year, five years, and 10 years later... you will see that the marjority of witnesses silently leaving the organization.

    Yes, NY44M.

    And how many have left their apostate ways? I mean, right now, take a count on your hand -- a count of the ones DF'd or DA'd because they no longer could swallow the lies and control and the arrogance -- but then went back to the org.

    I just did and not one finger in my hand was used in counting. Of course, as the ad says, Results will vary .


  • NewYork44M

    In my history of close to 50 years I cannot recall any situation where someone labeled an "apostate" came back to the organization.

  • Terry

    Only one issue need be discussed.

    Have Jehovah's Witnesses spoken in God's name about events to come which DID NOT OCCUR?

    If so, they are FALSE PROPHETS.

    Nothing else need be discussed, argued or proved.

    This is God's own test.

    They cannot pass.

    To do otherwise would be like arguing over whether the trains ran on time under Mussilini's regime, or; whether or not Hitler gave German citizens self-esteem. The details obscure an argument. The most important issue must never be avoided.

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