The Sorrow and the Pity of the Watchtower: denial of DUE PROCESS

by Terry 30 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Narkissos

  Hi Terry,

  Excellent moral and scriptural argument.

  Now let's look at it from the other, materialistic, side: the notions of "due process" and "judicial fairness" do not fall from heaven; they are needed and worked out by any society to emerge from the state of permanent violence. It's the provisional balance of a power struggle cristallising and writing itself into the stone of institution between two violent crises, wars or revolutions. And, in the meantime, constantly modified by the negotiation of public opinion and reform.

  Now sub-societies like the WT do not have the same constraints as the State. Because in principle you are there by choice. In principle you can get out more easily than you got in. In principle.

  Because the true mystery is that most people cannot simply step out. (Reminds me of Luis Buñuel's movie El ángel exterminador, where a houseful of guests is trapped during one night in the unlocked home of their hosts.) Only massive defections would introduce effective power struggle into the system, and hence moral concern about "due process" would miraculously sprout forth.
• 

  blondie

  I think initially CTR thought that way but in 1908 there was the first major fallout from the WTS.

  http://www.heraldmag.org/2004_history/04history_7.htm

  New Covenant Fellowship

  In 1908-09 E. C. Henninges, the Australian branch manager of the International Bible Students Association, and M. L. McPhail, pilgrim for the IBSA, withdrew their support causing the second largest split in the Society’s history, second only to the 1917 split. They produced a monthly journal The New Covenant Advocate and Kingdom Herald and ­numerous books, booklets, and tracts. After Henninges’ death, his work continued for some years; operations ceased by 1944. Most of the New Covenant Bible Students were left to fend for themselves. Many did not survive and splintered off into non-existence. The Free Bible Students, as they call themselves today, make up the largest Bible Student group in Australia. In recent years there has been a resurgence of Free Bible Student rallying under the new leadership of the Christian Millennial Fellowship.

  http://www.heraldmag.org/2006_history/06history_9.htm

  New Covenant Fellowship

  In 1909 a division occurred in the Bible Student movement between M. L. McPhail and Pastor Russell over their understanding of the covenants and sin offering. McPhail and E. C. Henninges of Australia formed the New Creation Fellowship. They published a journal, The Kingdom Scribe. Over the years that movement has evolved into various separate but parallel groups. Two of these are perhaps the most prominent in the United States.

  http://amazingforums.com/forum/GSTORRS/28.html

  http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t918.html

  Back about December 1881 Bro. Russell had printed an article on the Three Covenants: Law (Jewish Age), Grace (Gospel Age) and New (Millennial Age and beyond). His terminology became somewhat lax over the next 26 years, which sounded on occasion as though the church might be under a new covenant; so when a brother pointed out the difference again, in 1908 Bro. Russell published an article on the distinction between the two in nearly every WT issue. Some parted company with the Watch Tower, some of them quite bitterly, saying that the church is under the New Covenant even now: E.C. Henninges (who had married the Russell's unofficially-adopted daughter, Rose E. Ball; then ca. 1903 they went to Australia to open up a WT branch office there); M.L. McPhail (the WT's first pilgrim; from Chicago); Horace Randle (who had gotten the Truth in China in 1898); A. Ed. Williamson (New York); and J.H. Giesey (WT Vice-President up to 1908) - in all, perhaps a few hundred. According to the modern Watchtower, were these who left the WT right, while the >90% who stayed with the WT wrong?
• 

  Tyrone van leyen

  It never ceases to amaze me how deep and varied topics these topics in consideration can be. I read these posts and feel stupid. I am trying to learn all this but there is so much, it is discouraging. The other day I was posting on where God resides and my father called me in the middle of it and ripped into me. It was very discouraging and consequently I left posting. Shit he makes me angry. Keep posting. Your all brilliant and I love learning these different angles. Most of my learning hasn't come from books just observing and thinking. I now see how greatly lacking in many areas I am.
• 

  Clam

  Could it be the labeling of critics as "evil slaves" and "apostates" is mere despotism? Is the denial of Due Process a symptom of a haughty spirit that cannot bear scrutiny?

  Surely these people who consider themselves the mouthpiece of the creator could not by their own logic accept input from 'mere mortals'? To do so would be an acceptance of fallability, which would, ipso facto undermine their position as a divine instrument.

  The new light tactic allows them to shift and change but always giving the impression that they and Jehovah have done so, without the need or assistance of the masses.

  Clam

  Good post!
• 

  freyd

  Very excellent thoughts presented on this thread. I believe the WTBTS to be the 3rd Babylon, as complete a counterfeit to real Christianity as Muslimism is to the Torah. One follows a non-existent FDS while the other follows a false prophet. And they'll both try to kill you if you change religions.
• 

  Terry

  "Often false prophets, when caught, try to shift the emphasis by falling back on their humanity. They would like everyone to forget the original facade and arrogance as they pretended to be the pipeline to the Holy Spirit." - Kurt Goedelman
  

  I find that divorce from the WTBTS and henceforth gathering with two or three in Christ's name, is spiritually satisfying; i.e., it works for me. Due process simply is not a part of the operational mechanism of the WTS.

  By creating a closed system and keeping it impenetrable by fiat, the Watchtower Society is able to maintain an illusory sense of a protective bubble blessed by God's spirit and rife with purpose leading to great rewards.

  Nothing threatens an illusory closed system more than opening a window and letting in some real light to expose the shadow puppetry going on.

  Beliefs which are true can withstand any amount of discussion, testing, interrogatory scrutiny or examination. Jesus never ran away from a tough question, did he? No. But, the Watchtower Society has jiggered the system and short-circuited the Q&A in the Socratic method which Jesus used to teach.

  The Watchtower closes off natural curiousity. It prints out in its study articles exactly what questions may be asked!

  Prying into their history and especially their failures will trigger a plethora of books, articles and effusive explanations cleverly written to smooth out the wrinkles. But, they will never engage you in actual "thinking-it-through". No JW is able to think it through. Why? They are not allowed to THINK for themselves at all. They are indoctrinated to respond to a stimulus. Beyond that there is no "there" there.

  When you reach the edges of indoctrination they go blank; they balk, they squirm and proclaim they'll "get back to you on that...". And that is the end of it.

  Any religion which only permits the closed system of thought and enforces it by threats and recriminations is a religion based on FEAR.

  JW's are among the most fearful of all believers. Why? Because they are assured their very lives and futures hang in the balance with every deed they do and every word they utter. Is it any wonder they self-examine to the point of implosion?

  It is the rare individual who can speak up and challenge this censorship. In a system that destroys individuality it is scarcely possible.

  They'd end up expelled.

  A closed system must remain closed.
• 

  mcsemike

  Terry: Excellent points. People will not fight or question the WT if they have something to lose. Psychology has taught us that the JW's have invested too much time, money, energy and pride (if I leave, I'll look stupid) to ever THINK. They also can lose family. Since I've already lost mine, probably forever, I have nothing to lose. So I post and say what I want to. And I tell the WT to go to Hell if they don't like it. What can they do? Beat me up? In Florida, we carry guns. Sue me? For telling the truth? I also have money, so my lawyer tangles up their lawyers. Sue a website I built? I'm a network engineer, I'll move it to somewhere safe. They can't win.

  What might work to expose them, as you said, would be a "Million Man March" in NYC. (Ladies also.) If there were to be one huge rally, the press would have a field day. The WT would lose many of the borderline, already thinking about leaving, people. Their growth rate is abysmal and they mainly baptize their own children. At that rate, they can't last more than 50 years. I believe they will start running out of money and young talent. The dinosaurs on the GB will die soon.

  One other good way to cripple them is if someone could get media exposure. Dr. Phil, Oprah, even a local cable show. Or newspaper articles. TV would be an atom bomb to them, especially with millions watching. Newspapers would chip away at them because in every town in the US, local householders would start to wise up and tell them to get the hell off their property. I've already told the entire neighborhood about my child being raped. No one here will have anything to do with them.

  I believe that those of us who are out have more talent and IQ than those who remain in the WTS. We should be able to come up with some way to wound them badly, if not actually start something that literally brings them down for good. The WTS is a CULT and must be destroyed before it hurts more people.
• 

  Doubting Bro

  Terry,

  Terrific points. I believe this is why the WTS will NEVER reform or change. They've called for the end several times, yet they keep on. They've changed more doctrines that probably any other religion, yet they keep on. The doctrine of the faithful & discreet slave is an absolute stroke of genius. They can claim infallibility on one hand, yet say they are imperfect on the other hand.

  Narkissos said:

  Only massive defections would introduce effective power struggle into the system, and hence moral concern about "due process" would miraculously sprout forth.

  I totally agree. I've been thinking about this and I'm not sure what could happen to bring about these mass defections.

  Their growth rate is abysmal and they mainly baptize their own children. At that rate, they can't last more than 50 years. I believe they will start running out of money and young talent.

  Right, mcsemike. I was going to start a thread about this issue. I really think that the GB doesn't realize the people who are leaving and disengaging are the very ones they can ill afford to lose. The middle management and "star" performers. Businesses who don't recongize when this is happening and take dramatic steps will self destruct. However, the hold on the average person is so great that I think it will take at least two more generations before they really start losing numbers.
• 

  Terry

  Now sub-societies like the WT do not have the same constraints as the State. Because in principle you are there by choice. In principle you can get out more easily than you got in. In principle

  I call it the inducement of the invisible "gun".

  The JW's break into your mind and pull an invisible gun on you (the threat of destruction at Armageddon). They disarm you by breaking down your confidence in your anchor points by pointing to "error" in your own religion. They humiliate you by constantly belittling your worth as a human being (sinful, imperfect, deserving of death, without hope, etc.).

  The gun is always there pointing right at you.

  I fancy there are few who just want to "sign up" to become JW's. It is a gradual process. Next thing you know you are pressured to be baptised and you can't remember why you should NOT do it.

  Indoctrination, inveteration and the gradual loss of rational defenses leads to inclusion in the new world society.
• 

  Tyrone van leyen

  You sure got a way with words Terry. I can't beleive that stupid organization threw these great minds out the door. Now it's forming a collective and the gun is starting to turn towards them with the aid of the internet. Our due process has weighed them in the balance and has found them deficient. That must worry them.