Out of Mythic into Rational consciousness, the EX-JW Journey

by jst2laws 123 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  jst2laws

  Hello again Didier,

  The intuitive idea of "events" happening to "things" is completely artificial, we know it, still we haven't (yet?) developed the linguistical and conceptual tools to dispense with it -- although some literary "cases" like Kafka and Borges insistently point to that possibility. Will it be the next collective "step"?

  We seem to be speaking philosophically about the same thing. The catch is that the reality found inside the atom forces it's leading researchers to sound like philosophers. It's not a choice they make. There are simply no words to describe nor familiar concepts to relate their finds to that gives us a handle on this quantum stuff. The electron/nucleus planetary illustration is an example of how trying to describe it actually misleads the listeners.

  Have a great week-end, all

  Steve
• 

  Terry

  There are simply no words to describe nor familiar concepts to relate their finds to that gives us a handle on this quantum stuff.

  I can think of Shakespeare as only combinations of letters if I so choose, or, think of letters as so many pixels on a page, or, think of a page as wood fibre....and so on. But, none of this has anything at all to do with the wonder of the Bard!

  The practical aspects of the genius of Shakespeare makes the elemental constitutency rather beside the point!

  The miracle of the genius of Shakespeare lies in his communication of characters which come alive fully in the exotic magnificence of language itself!

  It is utterly pointless to think of Falstaff or Hamlet as mere iambic pentameter couplets.

  Constituency is irrelevent in such cases.

  In a game of scrabble perhaps, but; otherwise---why bang your head against the sky?
• 

  jst2laws

  Terry,

  Well put. You sound more like a romantic in the post above and I for the most part agree with you. We are here to enjoy the experience, to live it. If we get obsessed with picking it apart we may miss the meaning of it.

  But what if one were to step aside from the romance of life long enough to discover the wonder of what it is made of and still come back to the poetry. For me the experience of life began when I saw a movie five years ago called 'Mind Walk' about the things we are discussing. It was quantum physics that jerked me out of the materialist trap and allowed me to see it is not about "stuff". Life, as the atom, is not made of stuff. It is more spiritual, poetic, mystical and amazing. Most of all it is to be enjoyed, like Shakespeare.

  Hope you have a good week-end.

  Steve
• 

  Narkissos

  The intuitive idea of "events" happening to "things" is completely artificial, we know it, still we haven't (yet?) developed the linguistical and conceptual tools to dispense with it -- although some literary "cases" like Kafka and Borges insistently point to that possibility. Will it be the next collective "step"?

  Yes, If we live long enough to collect,...there, lies the problem!

  I must confess that my two questions(?) in the quote above were more a concession to Steve's cognitive optimism than my own conviction.

  Language imo implies arbitrary separation, and while some of the main categories it has been using for millenia (like "things" and "events") might get obsolete in the (very) long run (it's more like linguistics-fiction actually) it would still have to artificially break up the continuous flow of being (or thing-event) somehow to say anything at all. It is the nature of "dis-course" to interrupt and err from the "course" of "things-events". What some poetical or mystical talk effects is pointing to the limits of language from within language, confirming both the inadequacy and inevitability of language.

  What is true, I think, is that a growing number of speakers cannot confuse anymore rationality with reality, which might make "dis-course" more self-conscious, if not modest.

  And let's not forget that the "real" has always found a way to interrupt the vanity of human discourse with silence, cry, or laughter...