GAY SHEEP -- Scientists look for "cure."

by Rabbit 30 Replies latest social current

  • Confession
    Confession

    This is an interesting topic to me. I have no problem whatsoever with the idea that the majority of homosexuals are gay because they were born gay. But as Satanus brings out, for years I have heard gay people say that they are not such by choice. 'Believe me,' they say, 'I would not have chosen to be homosexual.'

    I'd imagine that this sentiment is not universal, but if a significant percentage of homosexuals truly wish they were not gay, wouldn't attempting to find a "solution" be a good thing for them? I have no reason to believe that such a thing is possible--and I recognize many may have no interest whatsoever. But just as a man trapped in a woman's body (or vice versa) may try to take steps to change him or herself, why shouldn't this "alteration" be available to those who do want to pursue it--again, if it is possible?

    How about this? As a homosexual, if you had the choice, would you prefer that children you had (in whatever way you had them) were heterosexual? Would it be wrong to take steps to try and "ensure" it--as long as, say, those steps were not dangerous?

  • gumby
    gumby

    ........

    Why the bible used sheep as being the innocent one is beyond me. Their species is more related to sex than a damn human.

    Gumbaa...baaaaa

  • Rabbit
    Rabbit

    Confession

    But as Satanus brings out, for years I have heard gay people say that they are not such by choice. 'Believe me,' they say, 'I would not have chosen to be homosexual.'

    I'd imagine that this sentiment is not universal, but if a significant percentage of homosexuals truly wish they were not gay, wouldn't attempting to find a "solution" be a good thing for them?

    I say, "To each their own," whatever they truly want to do...IF, they are not coerced by family, friends, religious beliefs, social pressure and governmental laws, etc. People that are gay usually give those very reasons as 'why' they "would not have chosen to be homosexual.'

    Most folks simply want to be left alone to love who they want without being analysed by people who don't want to understand them. I'll bet even gays want that, too.

    Speaking of governmental pressure, I read recently that there are over 75 countries that still prosecute homosexuals as being criminals. If caught, the sentences run from several years, to life imprisonment...to the deathpenalty.

    You can read about the present state of 'humanity' in some countries here -- and even do something about it, too.

    "For an International Day Against Homophobia (IDAHO)"

    hosted on the web by PetitionOnline.com, the free online petition service, at: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/idaho/

    I personally agree with what this petition says, and I think you might agree, too. If you can spare a moment,

    please take a look, and consider signing yourself.

    Rabbit

  • Confession
    Confession

    Hey Rabbit... I did read it--and do agree with it. Even as JW elder I held views about homosexuality that were considerably different from what the organization taught. And I continue to feel sick about what these people have to face.

    So please let me make plain that--outside of any governmental, religious or societal pressure--to the degree that there may be homosexuals who actually might be interested in such a study, giving them access to it (I think) could be a good thing.

    For those who are not interested? Let's get on with this whole human evolution thing--and set aside these ridiculous, troglodytic behaviors. You're welcome in my home anytime.

  • observador
    observador

    I wonder if there are more gay sheeps than goat. If there are, it seriously undermines their presumed innocence and reveals their sexual hidden disgusting [insert your preferred adjective here] lives and real motives. :) Long live the goats!

  • darkuncle29
    darkuncle29

    "spiders stopped spinning their webs as a hobby & started using them to catch & eat insects"

    --OMG! That is so funny!

    I've long held that fundies would just love to put all us queers in camps and cut our brains out.

    (sorry for the bad formatting, using firefox and haven't figured it out yet)

  • Rabbit
    Rabbit

    Confession

    So please let me make plain that--outside of any governmental, religious or societal pressure--to the degree that there may be homosexuals who actually might be interested in such a study, giving them access to it (I think) could be a good thing.

    I'm sorry, I did not mean to imply you thought any differently. I agree everyone should have access to any & all information about what makes people tick. Nobody should decide for others what is so very personal.

    My interest in this subject began in 1974, just before Armageddon. I found out one of my ten fellow regular pioneers -- was gay! He was one of my good friends...and as fast as I could get to a telephone...I reported him to the Elders. They made mince meat out of him quickly, within a week he was DF'd.

    Fast forward to 2005: During all those years I never heard another word about him. Except for the sneers of self-righteousness from JW's who knew about his fall from the favor of God ...and everyone knew. The Elders made sure of that.

    It took a few years, but, I began to worry about my former friend...he already suffered from depression and I was fearful my actions may have pushed him over the edge. I was afraid he had committed suicide. I began trying to find him -- to assuage my growing guilt that I could have had a big part in the destruction of someones life. I betrayed something that a friend had told me in confidence.

    I could never find anything about him, even in internet searches I did. Finally , 1 year ago, he replied to an E-mail inquiry I had put out looking for someone who might have known him! He was alive! When he saw my name, he later told me, he almost did not reply -- get this -- he thought I might be part of some Jehovah's Witness 'Outreach' Program, trying to get him to come back ! LOL ! I explained, "No-no, not that -- ever!". I was rather eat-up with the JWism cancer back then.

    I explained that I simply wanted to apologize to him for what I'd done those many years ago. He accepted that graciously and explained he never had blamed me...he knew I was just following a faithful JW's orders.

    What he'd been thru was horrendous, tho'. My friend had been a true believer and it turned out he had always been gay. The Elders promised him a "cure" by becoming a JW, obviously it didn't work. At his inquisition JC, 4 extra elders showed up...to tell him what an awful, pitiful human he was and declared that, "Jehovah himself has turned his back on you...and with Armageddon SO close, you would be better off dead! That way you might have a chance in the resurrection!"

    As a true believer, he took that seriously (that Jah turned his back) and so wracked with guilt, he tried suicide numerous times. With all hope taken away, he fell into alcohol & drugs, where he stayed for 15 years. Eventually he got clean, joined AA and has been sober ever since. He works as a counselor, helping addicts and alcoholics now.

    Guess what? He's still gay! And I'm happy & proud to have him as my friend -- again.

    I learned a good lesson about meddling in others personal issues and in keeping a confidence. I also learned that turning in friends to the elders was not 'a good, loving thing' like I'd been taught, the elders were there to judge & punish not to help. I thought they would 'help' him. I learned that I'd set myself up as a judge, too.

    Nevermore, nevermore...

    By bringing attention to an underdog group of peoples plight -- for being their natural selves is the very least I can do, in some small way, to make up for my past bad behavior. Or, at least to make others think about the possible results of their "good intentions."

    The social pressure is horrendous on these people from many directions, so, I can understand why some may "wish they were not gay." If their situations were different...well, that's up to them.

    Rabbit

  • Cowboy
    Cowboy

    I've been around sheep and cattle alot, all my life. That's got to be one of the most ridiculous research projects I've heard of - I see very little correlation between homosexual behavior in livestock and in humans. Maybe in those people deprived of access to the opposite sex, but that's certainly not the reason for most homosexual behavior in humans.

    Homosexual behavior in livestock can be observed in man made enviroments - a group of pubescent or older rams or bulls penned together and away from females of their species will exhibit homosexual behavior. Take the same group of males and turn them out with a group of females and they will no longer be interested in each other, only in the females. Sure, some will display a higher sex drive, but whether with other males or with females, the same individuals will be more aggresive than others. By the same token, in a group of females with no males present, the females that behave sexually toward each other are usually all in estrus. Or a female in a certain stage of pregnancy or some other heightened hormonal state (such as might be caused by an ovarian cyst or other reproductive proplem) will behave sexually toward a cow in estrus. But put a bull in the group, and the other cows quit paying attention to the one in estrus.

    Livestock in a natural envroment have sex for one reason - a natural drive to reproduce. They have sex only when the female is in estrus, which is the only time she can get pregnant. A bull (or a ram) or even several of them with a group of cows (or ewes) won't show any sexual behavior except for when a female is in estrus - even over the several month time frame when all the females are bred and not cycling. I've yet to ever see or hear tell of a bull or ram that was physically able that would not attempt to breed a female in estrus, or a female in estrus that would refuse the attentions of a male.

    Peoples sex drives tend to be a bit more complicated... The desire for sex, whether heterosexual or homosexual, is far more emotionally driven than an animal's simple drive for reproduction. Cutting into a sheeps brain to try to explain that is pretty absurd.

  • Confession
    Confession

    Cowboy, interesting stuff.

    Rabbit, thanks for the story. I have my own about coming to understand the position JWs (and others) take about homosexuals as troubling. I'm not gay. Was never aware of anyone very close to me being gay. Guess I imagined homosexuality was far rarer than it actually is. Then, while I was an elder, a good friend of mine, about ten years older than I, approached me to talk about a serious matter.

    He and his wife had been neighbors of my former wife and I. He used to be a pioneer elder, and had been helpful to me on many occasions. He'd stepped aside by the time he approached me. So another elder and I sat down with him. He then revealed that he'd been, as he put it, "struggling with homosexuality." This was not something I'd imagined. To hear him describe his "struggle" made me very sad. Something seemed wrong. At the time, I guess I felt that homosexuality was wrong from a Biblical (and thus Godly) perspective--but I felt that our attitude about it should be MUCH more understanding than it was.

    Soon after I discovered that an even closer friend (married with child) had been "struggling" with exactly the same thing! What the hell?! Less than a year later, my closest friend in the world--a fellow beloved elder--was found to have been a homosexual pedophile! (I don't mean to link homosexuality with pedophilia. I'm just trying to relate how, in a short period of time, I became aware that homosexual inclinations were clearly MUCH more common than I'd thought.)

    All sorts of memories came flooding back. I remember an elder, while conducting a book study, saying, "Do you really think Jehovah wants the new system filled with a bunch of fags?" I knew that the subject of homosexuality was occasionally brought up--and how people would just talk about how disgusting it was. And I imagined how horrible it must have been to have homosexual feelings, while believing that it was a perverted, condemned practice--and hearing these insensitive people talking about it in the way they did.

    Your description of all those elders ganging up on your friend makes me sick. To me, it basically amounts to a bunch of self-appointed guardians relishing an opportunity to exert a form of angry authority, while also demonstrating in front of each other how very UN-homosexual they themselves were.

    I know what it's like to believe strongly in the religion--and to conclude that, therefore, homosexuality was wrong. But I hope that as many as possible can come to understand that, not only is the WTS not what it purports to be, but also that the bitter denunciation and shunning of those with a different sexual preference is a sick, draconian practice.

    Confession

  • Mysterious
    Mysterious

    "Scientists are studying a way to alter the pigment pattern in dark coloured sheep thereby making them white"

    Would anyone have a problem with that?

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