by The wanderer 45 Replies latest jw friends
It is not something that you can experience through a second or third party, nor something, that you can read and find in a book.
And yet, I have every confidence that my information is dead to rights. How do you explain that? I do have a lot of experience with abuse and manipulation, outside the society. I also have eyes and ears.
What kind of individuals do you think get readily "taken" ?
Recruiter for cults like WTS size up people and give them what will help them to accept the doctrine.
(Become all things to all people.)
That means there are educated people, there are intelligent people, there are ignorant people, etc.
The most vulnerable to WTS are those that have gone through a dramatic change in their life, causing
them to question things that are normal, or bringing great stresses to their lives, but truly, anyone who
is not on guard can be a victim.
What other methods do cults employ regarding recruiting?
REMEMBER, WTS recruiters are victims (as are other cult recruiters). That means they truly believe
that they are helping you to find the best way of life. Most cults will resort to dishonesty to make you a
member. WTS doesn't really use dishonesty, as they teach their members to be honest, but they use
incomplete information (a form of dishonesty, even according to their doctrine). They tell you they are not
trying to get you to join the JW's, "just sharing thoughts from the Bible." "You can do what you want with
the information I leave you."
Early on in a study, WT recruiters tell you that Satan will cause people to try to get you away from JW's.
This does happen, so the victim thinks the recruiters have special knowledge from God. I was amazed that
this is a common recruitment method in MOST RELIGIOUS CULTS.
In WTS- Once their bookbags are on your table, they start encouraging you to come to meetings because you can
see for yourself that "we are normal." Truly, meetings are love-bomb centers (instant friends) and a chance
to let people see that so many intelligent people agree with the WT, that they should reevaluate what is
holding themselves back (a form of peer pressure that WTS accuses scientist of doing to people concerning Evolution).
What is your point of view regarding cults and their methods?
They are extremely dangerous to those ignorant of them. Children are especially endangered by meetings.
They are largely harmless to those that know what they are.
Information is a huge key. Keep exposing information, many will see true light.
BabaYaga said:
telling you that you are different than everyone else and you are put under hardships and persecuted and make all of these sacrifices because YOU are BETTER than everyone else... you have the secret... you are the chosen lucky ones.
So true. Many cults use that technique. WTS says that Satan wants us to be ignorant of Jehovah's purposes, but the recruiter will tell people that they can "understand the deeper things of God's Word." They are special, know the secrets of the Bible, they have a responsibility to accept this special knowledge and study it deeply, so that they can save others from Satan.
Again, I was amazed to learn that this is common in MOST RELIGIOUS CULTS.
they play on the group gene, we needed that gene if we were to be left behind in the wilderness and dependent on others for food and care back in the day. But now so many people manipulate it, we have an innate deisire to belong. Through emotional and spiritual manipulation they make sure the "sheep" are all right there.
my understanding comes from first hand experience.
Wanderer, that just means that you would either be a great exit-counselor (deprogrammer in layman's terms) or
a great tool of an exit-counselor.
We don't want to go to marriage counselors that experience divorce, but they may be great at what they do,
One who has a successful marriage or has never been married can be just as good or better, but perhaps not.
First-hand experience is great, but it is only one thing. Many people who have never been victimized by WTS
are great helps to victims.
Dear Ms. Jgnat:
This is quoted from your last thread post.
"And yet, I have every confidence that my information is
dead to rights. How do you explain that? I do have a lot
of experience with abuse and manipulation, outside the
society. I also have eyes and ears."
Regarding this topic of discussion, I was giving you
a perspective of how cults, in particular the Watch-
tower Society draws individuals into their fold.
I know this because of having had the experience
happen to me. And, no doubt other individuals
experienced this or something similar as well.
I do not doubt that your information is "dead
to rights" as you have put it. Nor, do I
question your experience with abuse and
manipulation.
However, there are many emotional, mental,
social, and spiritual aspects of being a
Jehovah's Witness that an individual who
was never a Jehovah's Witness is not going
to fully understand or appreciate unless
you have undergone the life as a Jehovah's
Witness.
Very Respectfully,
The Wanderer
an individual who
was never a Jehovah's Witness is not going
to fully understand or appreciate
Respectfully submitted to Wanderer,
You are saying that you gotta be a "dumbass" to understand a "dumbass."
That is one way to understand, but there are others. Many people can empathize with JW's.
Many counselors and advocates are not victims of the same things they help people with, some are former victims
and that is their tool. Others have education, sympathy, they are good listeners, many tools. Many former victims
are basket-cases that would not be that helpful, others are marvelous at using their experience.
I understand what you are saying, but the former victim is not always the best at understanding why he was a victim.
There are experts that can totally relate, but have never been victims.
Who might be better at helping an ex-JW to relate to the real world, a former JW who escaped or a person who
avoided being a victim in the first place. Maybe both are able to do the job, maybe neither.
The person in question here is married to a JW, and she sees what it does to him.
A WT example is this: Sometimes you are too close to see the truth, example: a woman's slip is showing, but it takes someone
else to point it out to her. This can be true of people and their problems also.
Dear OnTheWayOut:
I appreciate your points, but the conversation
is between myself and Ms. Jgnat.
Respectfully,
The Wanderer
There are experts that can totally relate, but have never been victims
Getting a bit off topic here for a moment - but I've often pondered this statement. I didn't bear children but I did raise one - thus I feel that I totally relate to the raising of the child but there is no way that I can totally relate to the birth process. I don't believe that someone who has not been the victim of a rape or attempted rape can totally relate to the victim's experience unless they themselves have had the experience. I believe that there is empathy, sympathy, compassion, knowledge and understanding at some level - but I'm not totally convinced that without some type of experience in a form of victimization, a person can relate. That being said - I do believe that a person who has suffered from abuse can take that experience and pull from it to totally relate to other victims wether that be in a cult (which is a form of isolation and abuse) or suffering any other form of abuse. Sorry for the hijack...sammieswife.
However, there are many emotional, mental, social, and spiritual aspects of being a Jehovah's Witness that an individual who was never a Jehovah's Witness is not going to fully understand or appreciate unless you have undergone the life as a Jehovah's Witness.
And yet I do. My longevity on this board is evidence of that. Ex-JW's have commented that I have unusual insight in to the operations of the WTBTS. It's not unusual, if you consider my background and my ability. I easily grasp large people systems and their interactions. And I maintain the WTBTS is not so unique in the ways it controls it's members. The same techniques are used by manipulators, con-men, abusers, and high-control groups.
Unfortunately, I do have first-hand experience with abuse and manipulation. That's one of the reasons the WTBTS could never suck me in.
P.S. Because of my Christian background, also, I understand how the bible can be misused as a tool for punishment and control.
