Jake, let me ask you...did Jesus Christ rise bodily from the dead? I'd be interested in your response.
Religion vs. Christ
by *jeremiah* 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Jake99
Stark, I have no idea about the life of Jesus and neither does anyone else. The bible was written 60 years after his death and holds no credibility in my mind. I only believe in things that are possible so I do not believe that Jesus was any more than what I am.I have outperformed Jesus in every way if you look at my works and he was not the Messiah I am. This world needs clean water and the end of wars pollution, corruption, greed and waste which is why I am here to lead the world. You can do what you like with the religious books they have nothing to do with my ways.
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stark
Stark, I have no idea about the life of Jesus and neither does anyone else. The bible was written 60 years after his death and holds no credibility in my mind. I only believe in things that are possible so I do not believe that Jesus was any more than what I am.I have outperformed Jesus in every way if you look at my works and he was not the Messiah I am. This world needs clean water and the end of wars pollution, corruption, greed and waste which is why I am here to lead the world. You can do what you like with the religious books they have nothing to do with my ways.
Jake, I suggest that Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, James, and Paul knew much about the life of Jesus., they were eye witnesses to the events. It's interesting that they all lived their lives in poverty, going town to town being beaten, stoned, and eventually killed proclaiming that they had seen Jesus alive. They also wrote about Jesus, what he said, what he said he would do, and what happened. I'd also like to point out that some of the Bible was written earlier then your suggestion of 60 years after. For example the Book of Acts, a history of the early church, did not include the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem which occurred in A.D. 70. Such an important event would certainly have been included. So if Jesus' death and resurrection occurred in A.D. 30 you could deduce Acts was written at the most 40 years after Christ. Another point about Acts is that it ends with Paul's imprisonment and doesn't mention his death, which was around A.D. 67-68. To find an earlier book we find Luke, the author of Acts, writing in Acts, "In my former book, Theoophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach... " Luke's former book was, of course, the gospel of Luke, and historians say that Luke used the Gospel of Mark as source material.
I understand the Resurrection gets in the way of your world domination, but it's extremely important that you look into it, your eternal salvation depends on it. As for out performing Jesus...that's between you and God, He and you know the truth about that.
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Jake99
Stark, Please come down to reality that book you believe in has no facts associated with it. This planet is all we know and all we are able to control so I suggest you put the book down and work on solutions to global warming and poverty or the elimination of wars and waste.Wake up this is heaven and the ways of this world have turned it into hell. I am here to unify and resolve the problems this planet faces and that is job #1. Religion stands against my ways but they do preach them.
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stark
Stark, Please come down to reality that book you believe in has no facts associated with it. This planet is all we know and all we are able to control so I suggest you put the book down and work on solutions to global warming and poverty or the elimination of wars and waste.Wake up this is heaven and the ways of this world have turned it into hell. I am here to unify and resolve the problems this planet faces and that is job #1. Religion stands against my ways but they do preach them.
Jake, are you absolutely sure there are no facts associated with the Bible? Are you saying that the Bible has no archaeological or historical support for its claims about people, places, kings, cities, and events? For instance, the Bible claims that a little over two thousand years ago there was a ruler named King Herod, who ruled over the city of Jerusalem. Are you saying there was no King Herod, and no Jerusalem? Never a Babylon? Never a King David?
Maybe you should rethink your position, or restate your case.
By the way, as far as this planet being heaven...sadly, this planet will be as close to heaven as some people will get.
As far as religion goes... forget religion for now, and consider the possibility that there is a being who brought all that we see, the heavens and the earth, into existence. It's not religion that stands in your way, because to reach your goal people would have to follow you religiously. The One who stands in your way is the one who brought all things into existence...that is God.
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Jake99
What I was saying is that you cannot rely on second hand accounts of what people said because you could not be verbatim and that is important. If I were to talk for 5 minutes and you wrote down what I said after I was finished the meaning would change and if you wrote it down years later as was done with the bible well it would not even be close to what was meant. I dont care about what happened 2000 years ago I am in the present day working with facts, science and technology looking at the future, not the past. The bible clearly states many times that the world is following Satan thinking they are following God and the state of the planet clearly demonstrates that to be the case. The Christians of the U.S. manufacture and distribute 45% of the worlds military weapons and create at least 25% of the environmental destruction. Thats a long way from you will learn war no more, and waste not want not etc..
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stark
What I was saying is that you cannot rely on second hand accounts of what people said because you could not be verbatim and that is important.
So are you saying eyewitness accounts of any event should not be admissible in a court of law? That's what you have in much of the New Testament.
If I were to talk for 5 minutes and you wrote down what I said after I was finished the meaning would change and if you wrote it down years later as was done with the bible well it would not even be close to what was meant.
So for example where John, in John 14:6, quotes Jesus as saying "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Your saying that probably Jesus never said anything even close to that? You should go online and check out the rules for historical accuracy.
By the way instead of me writing down what you said and me getting it wrong, what if you spent 3 years with me and taught me what you said...would there be a better chance of me getting it right?
I dont care about what happened 2000 years ago I am in the present day working with facts, science and technology looking at the future, not the past.
Your future is what I'm concerned about.
The bible clearly states many times that the world is following Satan thinking they are following God and the state of the planet clearly demonstrates that to be the case.
Many times? Name 3 times
The Christians of the U.S. manufacture and distribute 45% of the worlds military weapons and create at least 25% of the environmental destruction.
Have you personally experienced your "fact" that those who Have made Jesus Christ Lord of their life, and believe in their heart that he was raised from the dead, and who live in the U.S. personally manufacture and distribute 45% of the worlds military weapons, or did you get that from someone else. If you got it second hand are you ready to apply the rule you mentioned earlier in your post, I quote:
"What I was saying is that you cannot rely on second hand accounts of what people said because you could not be verbatim and that is important."
Or is that rule only for the Bible?
Thats a long way from you will learn war no more, and waste not want not etc..
Now is that a quote from the Bible?
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Namasti
Stark,
Were you a JW? I'm asking because it appears to me that you are still trapped. You left an all or nothing mentality and adopted another-- "all or nothing" Bondage is bondage. Believing there is only one path, one way, one road to "salvation" is far from true freedom. People have misinterpreted Christ message completely. He never wanted worship and he himself was universal if you look deep enough. It appears you still have that JW mentally. I opened my mind completely when I left the JW's and what an incredibly liberating experience that has been for me. I hope the same for you.
Namasti
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stark
Stark
Were you a JW?
Namasti,
No, never a JW.
I'm asking because it appears to me that you are still trapped. You left an all or nothing mentality and adopted another-- "all or nothing" Bondage is bondage.
Sorry, but I'm not absolutely certain what you mean. What do you mean by "an all or nothing mentality" and by "bondage."?
Believing there is only one path, one way, one road to "salvation" is far from true freedom.
I guess before I deal with "only one path" to salvation I should ask; do you believe in any roads to salvation? Are all religions true? Are some religions true? Are no religions true?
People have misinterpreted Christ message completely. He never wanted worship and he himself was universal if you look deep enough.
First, how do you know people have misinterpreted Christ's message?
Now, if I accept your assertions about Jesus (that he never wanted to be worshipped) as truth am I in bondage to that teaching about Jesus? At what point is a truth claim considered bondage?
By the way, what do you make of these quotes from Jesus:
"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6
and
John 3:17-18 "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."
Did Jesus say this? Did he say it, but was wrong? Were these passages added to the manuscript, or mistranslated?
It appears you still have that JW mentally. I opened my mind completely when I left the JW's
What do you mean when you say that you opened your mind completely? Completely? Is there any aspect of what people claim as truth that you have closed your mind to? Thinking about it I guess I'd have to say you have closed your mind to the notion that the JW's are right, or that I am right.
Sorry about the questions, but before I can really look at your claim of truth I have to know what you are saying.
and what an incredibly liberating experience that has been for me. I hope the same for you.
Just a side question...if what you believe about Jesus is a false belief, are you truly liberated?
Or
If what I believe about Jesus is in fact the truth, and I have great hope, joy, fulfillment, contentment, and meaning in my life; am I really in bondage?